Help with a 30th Level Monk

[Scion]

Quite right. And for a VoP PC, their wealth never changes.

Well, that isnt really true. The total value of everything that the character has on him likely varies much more per day than other characters.

After all, you eat your one meal you are allowed and there goes a large fraction of your wealth. Unless of course you get around some of those things by little holes in the rules (like owning a few very expensive weapons..lol)

Sorry, but IMO, the books idea doen't fly.

But the idea about getting the bonuses 'somehow' certainly does. I think it was pretty clear that the part about the books directly was a joke (note the smiley).


Lets put it this way. Say your buddy, who is not vop, places a permanent spell on you. This is legal, not really any different than them casting a cure light wounds on you really. Now, what do you do? Do you count the player who placed the spell on the person as having some amount of wealth somewhere? Do you ignore the situation entirely? Do you do something else?

It isnt that big of a step to go to a few scrolls of wish, or something similar. The cost is much greater, but the overall effect is still there. If your buddy casts wish on you for a +1 inherant bonus do you count the wealth difference against the buddy or the guy with the stat boost? Or are you saying that the monk should say no to the spell? It isnt an item, I dont see how it breaks any of the vop in any way (of course again I dont have my book with me, so maybe one of the bylaws does go against it).

When making the character wholecloth like this at high level I would assume pretty much every vop character would have a +5 inherant to the stats they want. After all, there isnt much that other high level people could give them as a reward. Maybe they were from various adventures with large numbers of people, maybe they were divine gifts, maybe he drank from the Magic Spring of Big Stats, who knows? That is what the backstory is for and the character wealth tables.

Like I said, completely dependent on the gm, the campaign, and the character. But I certainly see nothing against it directly.

Just like the commonality of tomes. Personally, I think tomes are pretty dumb, along with inherant bonuses not stacking up to a max of +5 (they have a linear increase in price which leads to zero reason for them not to stack up), plus the massive exp cost. But hey, I can change whatever I like in my own games, but as far as the rules go starting with some spells on you seems like a go.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The problem is that you are thus giving the character free boosts because you have just randomly assumed that they could get them. Maybe they could, but allowing the player to assume that they have them for free is disastrous. Then the non-VoP characters should also be assumed to have all the wishes they want for free too.

 

[Scion]

The problem is that you are thus giving the character free boosts because you have just randomly assumed that they could get them. Maybe they could, but allowing the player to assume that they have them for free is disastrous. Then the non-VoP characters should also be assumed to have all the wishes they want for free too.

One does not necissarily follow the other. In fact, I believe 'non sequitur' is an appropriate response

Also, this is why there is a dm, the rules for creating new characters wholecloth are somewhat lacking.

Given that, in this case, the character is level 30 (level 30!!!) I think it is well within reason that at some point they have gotten a few boons here and there.

Either way it would take the dm giving the go ahead. Even if the character 'wasnt' a vop it would still take the dm giving the go ahead.

I understand that there could be some issues, I am just saying that the rules allow it and that it cannot be dismissed just out of hand. I see no reason to simply assume it cannot be done.

 

[Rystil Arden]

am just saying that the rules allow it and that it cannot be dismissed just out of hand.

The rules say that you need to pay the market price for any spell cast on your character--unless of course you just hand-wave and allow everyone to take free wishes. To allow a VoP character to have the wishes and no one else is an inherit violation of the concept of Vow of Poverty--the point of the feat is that it is supposed to be a balanced way to void yourself from wealth, so the VoP character can be treated the same as characters with wealth and items in all ways except for treasure distribution thanks to their bonuses. You are giving the VoP character additional bonuses that are not provided by the feat that you have told me they should get and other characters should not, which is inherently unfair and unbalanced. If the feat-designer thought that the VoP character should be receiving inherent bonuses automatically, then by golly, he'd have put that into the list of powers for the feat

 

[Nail]

... I think it is well within reason that at some point they have gotten a few boons here and there.

....and you are allowed to hand-wave all you wish....as a DM.

However, that's completely off-topic for this thread. The OP is not the DM. He's a player, who has been asked to create a ECL 30 PC. He doesn't get to give himself inherent bonuses "'cause it could have happened sometime in the past, for free". He needs to design a PC within the parameters given. .....And those parameters don't explicitly include free wishes.

... I am just saying that the rules allow it and that it cannot be dismissed just out of hand.

That's .... a bit of a silly arguement, Scion.

 

[Bront]

Ummm...you most definitely can't read those books for the required months--VoP and all

THat's why he didn't take VoP initialy. He read the books at 1st level (It's going in the background). And yes, they're the +5 stat books.

BTW, We were told to "Munchkin out" the character.

The other class is from BoED (page 64 I think, it's mentioned in the notes).

 

[Jack Simth]

Let's see... if he can swing a Charisma bonus of +9 or better (charisma score of 28 or more), and at least 19 effecitve Sorceror levels (or a charisma score of at least 19 and at least 20 effective Sorceror levels), and takes the Wish spell, then he can likely spend the 25,000 xp per stat to get a +5 inherent bonus (he cast it himself, on himself). Of course, one single stat like that drops him almost an entire level. All six drop him 150,000 xp, which means the difference between level 30 and level 25, if I'm doing my math correctly.

 

[Rystil Arden]

THat's why he didn't take VoP initialy. He read the books at 1st level (It's going in the background). And yes, they're the +5 stat books.

BTW, We were told to "Munchkin out" the character.

The other class is from BoED (page 64 I think, it's mentioned in the notes).

But see, that's ignoring the wealth guidelines. Your character should have had the wealth of a level three character to spend when he took the vow, giving away the excess. I'm all for munchkining, but I like to at least keep it by the rules without perverting them, which should be very easy by level 30, particularly if you didn't take VoP, as you would get better results without the feat. I mean, the Shou Disciple guy was level 15 and he was comparable in AC and attack bonus (though admittedly not SR or Hit Points)

 

[Bront]

I looked at the Shou, and I didn't want to give up the SR, plus, you can't reenter monk once you take Shou (Or the other one I took strangely, since that one grants monk abilities), so when to take it was a problem.

I'l going to ask the DM if it's approvable or not, and if he says no, I can either not take the books, not take the VoP or adjust the VoP to a different level.

I've been told I should also try to apply the Saint template to add an insight bonus to my AC equal to my wisdom. I'll have to look that up. If I get DR 10/Evil twice, does it stack?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I looked at the Shou, and I didn't want to give up the SR, plus, you can't reenter monk once you take Shou (Or the other one I took strangely, since that one grants monk abilities), so when to take it was a problem.

I'l going to ask the DM if it's approvable or not, and if he says no, I can either not take the books, not take the VoP or adjust the VoP to a different level.

I've been told I should also try to apply the Saint template to add an insight bonus to my AC equal to my wisdom. I'll have to look that up. If I get DR 10/Evil twice, does it stack?

The DR wouldn't stack but you should definitely get the Saint template if you want a brokenly powerful character. It is well worth the price for its myriad awesome abilities (because it is supposed to be awarded for roleplaying reasons or some such)

Anyways, once you take Shou Disciple, you could just not go back to monk and also add on Ninja of the Crescent Moon from Sword and Fist for more stacking, full BAB and saves, and also Sneak Attack Then take epic in that.