Help with a 30th Level Monk
- Thread starter Bront
- Start date
Rystil Arden
First Post
For feats, do something stacky, like 7 SR +2 feats that will give you 14 more SR. But make sure also to get a few cool nonstacking ones, like the Deflect Ranged-Touch spells for the No-SR Complete Conjurer orb spellsBront said:Isn't there a scenerio that DR stacks with?
Also, any advice on Epic Feats?
And I am not normaly this munchkin, just exploring since it was asked. (Amazingly someone else created almost the same character that I did). That said, Saint sounds cool
Rystil Arden
First Post
It doesn't hold up well to Improved Precise Shot, the dumb and stupid nonepic feat that negates concealment and cover unless they are total. Epic Dodge can be useful though--negates the first attack each timeBront said:
Rystil Arden said:
This is a big load of nothing. The rules give guidelines about how much an npc could charge for the spell, but there could be other mitigating circumstances. There is no free wish going on anywhere, nor have I said that there is at any time as far as I can tell.
Would you disallow a vop character from having permanent spells? how about instantaneous spells cast on them? If both of those are ok then I'd have to say that you are making up artificial boundaries.
If you feel it is unfair or unbalanced that is up to you, but this is the rules forum. Of course, given the limitations of the vop character I dont feel that it is either.
And to nail: again, I did not say free wishes. Trading one service for another seems fair to me. Bartering has always been a good way to go in places where money is not allowed. Also, there isnt much one can actually do to thank the vop character directly (as in gifting). So, with options limited at some point over the course of 30 levels I do not see this as overwhelming.
Still, even without all of that, I personally wouldnt care if someone did write a million wishes into their background that they did get for free, so long as they have no useful impact now. They could say that every year they cast a wish to become one year younger and have been doing this for a hundred years. What does it do to the game? nothing really, they get to say they have been around longer. Woo. They dont get any extra benefits so why should it have an actual cost?
Some of the people argueing here strike me as the same kind of dm I heard about awhile back.. the player wanted to get into a prc which required having to have made a magic item at some point in the past. The player just wanted it to be part of his background but the dm said no, every item you have made counts against the exp I have just given you. Complete foolishness in my eyes. If the person doesnt have the item now there isnt any reason to charge them exp for it. They had all of the feats, they were starting at a decently high level, I bet at some point in time they might have just used them. If they dont have it now it shouldnt count against wealth or exp loss so long ago.
Whatever works for each campaign though I suppose. But, as my comment earlier (no matter how foolish nail might think it), it is a valid interpretation and is 'not' without cost. None of the arguements I have put forth for it to work have been refuted with more than, 'well, I wouldnt do it that way and I dont think anyone else should either', but that isnt helpful.
If you want your vop characters to be immune to spells with durations longer than X (and we have no idea how long or short X is, it seems to be defined at random by the people going against the idea) then change it in your game.
Rystil Arden
First Post
Please don't resort to this sort of pointless and false accusations--it seems to be a large percentage of your argument here. There are a lot of things I could have commented about that you have said that are utterly unreasonable, but I am trying not to do so, as they wouldn't be constructive. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not trying to *win* anything here.
Let's get down to your assertion though--no matter how you try to phrase it, you have given them free wishes. Yes. Free. Permanent spells cast upon them at the start of the game? Nope. You've once again given the character free power. It is unreasonable to give a player free power based on what she wrote in her backstory. If my backstory says, "And that was when I convinced the god Boccob to be my lackey," then that doesn't mean I get Boccob as a lackey. Free magic item without paying for it that is the prereq for a PrC? No way! The PrC requires the item for a reason. This is not just what some would term "munchkinism" by which I mean using all the rules advantages in your favour. I respect people who do that. This is ignoring the rules. Per RAW, you do not start with unlimited free wishes for no reason. If you did, then my non VoP character will start with 10000 wishes and build up 250,000,000 gold.
Not so. The rules are against you. You don't just get spells cast on you for free at the outset of the game. Everything counts against your gold.
Rystil Arden said:
Then please dont go off with a bunch of rhetoric that doesnt prove anything and claim that it does. I find your entire arguement very out of line with the raw and I tried to show how. Perhaps I havent picked the best of examples or been as clear as I would like, but there they are anyway. if I think of better ones I'll post them.
There is nothing free going on here, there are always costs. If you choose to ignore any and all costs and assume things are free then there isnt anything I can do about that.
You keep on making up this claim but it is backed up no where. Building your strawman so you can knock him down proves nothing. If you wish to say it is not something you would do in your game fine, but I have given examples as to how it 'could' work.
Again, it depends on the dm, the campaign, and the character.
Now that I am back home I have checked with the actual feat in question.
You cannot have material possessions beyond those listed.
Is the inherant bonus a material possession? no, it is not.
Ok, done. Someone else could cast it on you.
After it is cast I would personally count it against wealth as though it was granted by a book however.
This isnt a problem for the vop character normally, they dont spend their allowed wealth on anything else anyway.
So, I see no rules violations at all.
One could say that it is difficult to get someone to cast the spells on you, and it very well could be. But, the point isnt that it is difficult, only that it is 'possible', especially with a good enough reason.
The vop character already gives up quite a lot. In fact, at this level I think he would be much better off 'not' making the vop character. Even with the inherant bonuses he is likely only using about 1% of his total wealth and then getting the bonuses of the feat, which tend to be less impressive than actual items (except under very specific circumstances).
imo saying that there is no way it could happen just doesnt make any sense. There doesnt seem to be anything preventing it nor any balance issues to consider. ::shrugs::
As I said, up to the dm, the campaign, and the character.
You cannot have material possessions beyond those listed.
Is the inherant bonus a material possession? no, it is not.
Ok, done. Someone else could cast it on you.
After it is cast I would personally count it against wealth as though it was granted by a book however.
This isnt a problem for the vop character normally, they dont spend their allowed wealth on anything else anyway.
So, I see no rules violations at all.
One could say that it is difficult to get someone to cast the spells on you, and it very well could be. But, the point isnt that it is difficult, only that it is 'possible', especially with a good enough reason.
The vop character already gives up quite a lot. In fact, at this level I think he would be much better off 'not' making the vop character. Even with the inherant bonuses he is likely only using about 1% of his total wealth and then getting the bonuses of the feat, which tend to be less impressive than actual items (except under very specific circumstances).
imo saying that there is no way it could happen just doesnt make any sense. There doesnt seem to be anything preventing it nor any balance issues to consider. ::shrugs::
As I said, up to the dm, the campaign, and the character.
