D&D (2024) Heroes of the Borderlands

[DEFCON 1]

Exactly. I remember a screenshot I took in BG3, my party looked like a ragged band of madmen, covered in filth and blood, looking for I believe its the spirit of nature, a child.

I mean if we wanted to really have a deep think, nobody is going to enjoy playing this game, because we are engaging in things that rightly mess people up. (I again think of LotR...but anyway)

I dont mind the moral dilemma, but folks need to remember its an Elf Game.

Heh... I'm having the same thing currently in my playthrough of Hogwart's Legacy (the Harry Potter RPG). I've reached the point in the story where my Fifth Year 16-year-old is learning about the "Unforgiveable Curses" and how quite a number of characters in the game keep saying how horrible a person I am for learning how to cast them and doing so. Despite me having already spent dozens of hours of gameplay where I'm literally slaughtering hundreds of poachers, dark wizards, goblins, spiders and other monsters-- as one always does in these kinds of games.

It's kind of hard to think "Oh yeah, using a brainwashing curse is an unforgiveable sin" right after having murdered so many goddamn people supposedly in "self-defense" because that's what video game RPGs have you do to increase the size and challenge of the game. It's really kind of silly. In fact, I had started the game as a student of Ravenclaw, but after a slight amount of time re-rolled as Slytherin as I realized most of my spells in the game were going to be fireballs, explosives, razor slicing, and telekinesis effects that throw enemies across the battlefield. And I figured if I was going to be expected to use all these things on people in the game, I could at least maintain a slight sense of "roleplay" by going with the school most likely to accept that idea of "kill or be killed" that I was going to experience.

 

[BookTenTiger]

So long as it's considered a different adventure, and not a replacement that changes the past, sure.

Changes the past???

If you want the original Keep on the Borderland, can't you just play the original Keep on the Borderland?

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's true. I remember playing Keep back in the early 80s as a 5th or 6th grader, and even then we came up with complicated plans to send the orc, goblin, etc children back to the Keep where they could be fed and raised rather than killing them. It's been a moral dilemma for as long as that module has existed I would imagine.

And removing that choice, IMO, make the adventure less rich.

 

[Zarithar]

It's hard to add a note from a child saying "Come home soon daddy" to an NPC you just killed? Throw in children cowering in the back of the cave is hard? Running across the corpses of youngsters that starved in the wilderness because you recently killed the adults isn't easy?

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Whoa whoa whoa... we escorted them back to the Keep in my game!

 

[Jolly Ruby]

Oh I get it. Im just saying in the moment. In that module. In that dungeon. It's just a stack of HP to deplete for XP

I tend to disagree. I see the presence of children and non-combatent orcs as a sign the author intended them as more than stacks of HP and game tokens. Gygax had a very "naturalistic" approach to game design.

I would say that even if orcs and goblins were just piles of HP to give you XP, nowadays the cat is out of the bag and the game designers can't use they that way anymore, not in a WotC product.

 

[Zarithar]

Changes the past???

If you want the original Keep on the Borderland, can't you just play the original Keep on the Borderland?

Yep - you can also add the missing bits into the update. If I were to run Pharaoh now for example, I'd just add in most of the missing stuff (I still own the original). I'd run the new one though just for the convenience of D&D Beyond.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's hard to add a note from a child saying "Come home soon daddy" to an NPC you just killed? Throw in children cowering in the back of the cave is hard? Running across the corpses of youngsters that starved in the wilderness because you recently killed the adults isn't easy?

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

You seriously think inventing new material is easier than removing existing material?

Sorry, I just don't buy it. This is just your preference.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Changes the past???

If you want the original Keep on the Borderland, can't you just play the original Keep on the Borderland?

Well, not in 5e.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Heh... I'm having the same thing currently in my playthrough of Hogwart's Legacy (the Harry Potter RPG). I've reached the point in the story where my Fifth Year 16-year-old is learning about the "Unforgiveable Curses" and how quite a number of characters in the game keep saying how horrible a person I am for learning how to cast them and doing so. Despite me having already spent dozens of hours of gameplay where I'm literally slaughtering hundreds of poachers, dark wizards, goblins, spiders and other monsters-- as one always does in these kinds of games.

It's kind of hard to think "Oh yeah, using a brainwashing curse is an unforgiveable sin" right after having murdered so many goddamn people supposedly in "self-defense" because that's what video game RPGs have you do to increase the size and challenge of the game. It's really kind of silly. In fact, I had started the game as a student of Ravenclaw, but after a slight amount of time re-rolled as Slytherin as I realized most of my spells in the game were going to be fireballs, explosives, razor slicing, and telekinesis effects that throw enemies across the battlefield. And I figured if I was going to be expected to use all these things on people in the game, I could at least maintain a slight sense of "roleplay" by going with the school most likely to accept that idea of "kill or be killed" that I was going to experience.

Fun game, though there should have been some kind of negative for using the curses. There is zero reason not to use them unless you just want a harder time (or for RP reasons).

Even the teachers if they see you say something like "I'll pretend I didn't see that." Yeah okay, chief.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I tend to disagree. I see the presence of children and non-combatent orcs as a sign the author intended them as more than stacks of HP and game tokens. Gygax had a very "naturalistic" approach to game design.

I was talking about your average monsters. I take children monsters as a moral test. Or a really interesting trap when they let them go just to have the kids try to kill them.