Hethas' Gambit: Game of Death discussion [rnd 5]

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Wow.
That is beyond belief, that Izad (a medium-sized human spellcaster?) could roll 2 successful 20% miss chances to avoid Blaster's full attack, then somehow get 2 unsuccessful grapple checks and then with his last grapple check (-10 for 3rd attempt), he did ... something (what is grabbing by the tail?) that got him out.
THEN, Blaster managed to miss ANOTHER sure-hit attack to grapple him again?
Then he gets a second 5' move out of the AMF and gets his hasted (I'm presuming) partial action back to use a Bead of Force 'gainst himself.

I'm really interested in seeing the rolls this round. :eek:

I guess Blaster's +ALOT grapple bonuses are for naught this Game... :(
 

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Luck o' the dice my friend. :)

I just find it great that he'd rather attack himself and imprison himself then go another round with ya. :) You should take that as a compliment, the big monster's on the prowl and people are throwing THEMSELVES in prison rather than face him. :) Rather drown then get torn limb from limb I guess.

New target time!
 

reapersaurus said:
Wow.
That is beyond belief,
No, no it isn't :).

that Izad (a medium-sized human spellcaster?)
It's true. A human spellcaster would have to be insanely lucky to achieve what Izad just achieved. I think we both know what the hidden assumptions here are, especially since I've never seen a medium-sized human spellcaster at 15th level who could get off 3 attacks in a round and still have room for a haste action.

could roll 2 successful 20% miss chances to avoid Blaster's full attack,
He only rolled one of them - the initial leap. Here is the full round outline:

Touch AC to leap onto him: hit, 20% miss, missed.
First attack: hit, improved grab, grappled!
Rakes: auto damage.
2nd attack: bind, failed (Izad beat you by 2). (no miss chance)
3rd attack: bind, succeeded. (no miss chance)

End of your attacks (per my ruling, the missed leap negated extra natural attacks, although not the rakes since you qualified for them later).

then somehow get 2 unsuccessful grapple checks and then with his last grapple check (-10 for 3rd attempt), he did ... something (what is grabbing by the tail?) that got him out.
Tail grabbing was text fluff. There is no -10 for 3rd attempt on grapples - you get a check for each attack you use up, and all checks are at your grapple check, which is BAB + STR + Size. This applies to Blaster as well, so they were on the same footing relative to each other the whole time.

He rolled better on 1 out of 3 attempts. Statistically, that means that on average he's about 6 points below you for his escape bonus (and note that he could substitute Escape Artist for Grapple Check for this one particular aspect of grappling).

THEN, Blaster managed to miss ANOTHER sure-hit attack to grapple him again?
I'm not sure why you insist it was a sure-hit attack. It was an AoO, where you roll 1d20+attack versus his AC. You seem to be assuming that his AC was medium-to-low.

Then he gets a second 5' move out of the AMF and gets his hasted (I'm presuming) partial action back to use a Bead of Force 'gainst himself.
Yes. There was nothing shady here :D.

I guess Blaster's +ALOT grapple bonuses are for naught this Game... :(
Yes. Because out of three people he's nailed with them, ONE had the balls to get away ;). You know better than that. Your +ALOT grapple bonuses are why the crappy first round rolls you got still resulted in a sure fire kill; and why Mortem was so dead, dead, dead.

So, uh, no. They are not for naught. They are, in fact, a primary reason you are such a killing machine.

-seasong
 

Additional note: If Izad dies from drowning in his force bubble, that will count as a suicide from a points perspective.

Blaster will not be docked any points for changing targets, since his current target is basically unavailable. He won't be docked if he has a way to get Izad, either, of course ;).
 


Jeremy: Yeah, you laugh now. Wait'll he gets a hold of you ;). As you said, Blaster really is the turn to watch right now :D.
 

seasong said:
Touch AC to leap onto him: hit, 20% miss, missed.
Per Blind-Fight, he gets another roll at the miss %.
Tail grabbing was text fluff. There is no -10 for 3rd attempt on grapples - you get a check for each attack you use up, and all checks are at your grapple check, which is BAB + STR + Size.
Not according to my book.
"If you get multiple attacks in a round, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses)."

That's what makes grapples so deadly to get pinned by...
Yes. There was nothing shady here :D.
I know there's nothing shady.
I trust you - that doesn't mean you (or I, or anyone) is perfect - we need many people's eyes peeled to get rules this BIG right.
Your +ALOT grapple bonuses are why the crappy first round rolls you got still resulted in a sure fire kill; and why Mortem was so dead, dead, dead.
Actually, Blaster killed MArius and Mortem with attacks:
He's whiffed on both opposed grapples so far.
Marius escaped the first round, AND Izad escaped, as well.

That's not exactly dominance in grapples when Blaster has a +4 size bonus, PLUS high-STR (I'm sure that's not a give-away to anyone), + a feat that applies here, seasong... and he still missed on the grapple, AND the AoO in an AMF.
Izad must have an incredibly-pumped up Escape Artist check, or be insanely non-magically strong, or something. :confused:

Oh yeah - where was the move-equivalent action to stand up from prone? ;)
(I have no clue how you wanted to run a Tripped character underwater...) :)
 

reapersaurus said:
Per Blind-Fight, he gets another roll at the miss %.
I missed this. Thanks. I will re-roll and get back to you :D.

Correction: Blaster did not miss. I need to roll up his extra claw and bite damage. At a quick glance, though, I don't think he can do enough to kill unless he gets a crit, so I'll roll this up later. Remind me if I don't!

Not according to my book.
"If you get multiple attacks in a round, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses)."
Yes, and that is the ONLY grapple check that the reduced bonuses are mentioned for - starting the grapple. Once the grapple is started, all other grapple checks (pinning, escaping, doing damage, etc.) don't do that by a strict reading of the rules.

And there's a good reason for it - you aren't trying to hit a set value (like AC), you are trying to hit an opposed check. If they went down on your attacks, it would give the defender (in every case) a huge advantage. For example, if your pin attempts went down by -5 every attack you used, you would have failed to pin him in the first place.

Actually, Blaster killed MArius and Mortem with attacks:
He's whiffed on both opposed grapples so far.
Marius escaped the first round, AND Izad escaped, as well.
The whole point of grappling isn't to do damage. It's to make escaping expensive and difficult - if damage was the point, grappling would do MORE damage, not less. Marius got out, sure... and then what? Oh yeah, after escaping, he only had enough actions left to get 10 ft away.

And we're talking about a half-ogre STR monster here, trying to escape you.

How would the Marius thing have gone down without the grappling? Oh yeah, he would have gotten further, downed the potion, and disappeared high into the sky.

Mortem: Actually, this is true. The grappling wasn't necessary against Mortem, because he died in the first round.

Izad: After escaping, his only option? Smacking himself with a bead of force? Jesus. That's not escape - it's suicide.

That's not exactly dominance in grapples when Blaster has a +4 size bonus, PLUS high-STR (I'm sure that's not a give-away to anyone), + a feat that applies here, seasong... and he still missed on the grapple, AND the AoO in an AMF.
Okay, quick fact: you gave up +4 BAB to be a weretiger. This is something anyone can check, so I'm not giving away anything. The size bonus exactly counters that.

Your STR and feats give you an OMG bonus to grappling. Your sheer number of attacks gives you an almost unbeatable capacity to grapple someone. And once they are grappled, that's IT - they have to escape or die trying. And for the escape, they get their NUMBER OF ATTACKS. Sheer odds are that they will escape if they use a full round AND if they have a good BAB + STR.

So far, both escapes used a full round, and had a good BAB (3 attacks in a round should tell you that); and one of them is a confirmed STR monster. And even with that... Izad, like Marius, only got 10 ft away from you. Marius tried to save himself with a spell. Izad did 23 points of damage to himself and caught himself in a bead of force trying to find a way out.

And you can still stand there and say that you're not dominating? Ha! In my day, we felt dominant if we edged the other guy out by a single hit point! ;)

Izad must have an incredibly-pumped up Escape Artist check, or be insanely non-magically strong, or something. :confused:
Actually, I can get an Escape Artist of +27 without trying very hard, and without magic.

Oh yeah - where was the move-equivalent action to stand up from prone? ;)
(I have no clue how you wanted to run a Tripped character underwater...) :)
I am treating it like perfect flying: there is no prone, there is just direction of travel.
 

Actually, per my comments on what grappling achieves, check out my fight with Oskar at Valhalla. The whole purpose of grappling at the end was to prevent him from getting away while I did horrible, horrible things to him. And I was a crappy grappler - I was just lucky he was worse.

So far, you've picked some of the toughest people to consecutively grapple. Try it on one of the little girls in the arena and see how you fare :p.
 

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