D&D 5E Hexblade main stat

ZickZak

Explorer
I've made Hexblade its own class and removed Pact otB and Hexblade from Warlock options. At lvl 5, it automatically gets Thirsting Blade invocation.

What other stat besides Charisma would you use for Pact Weapon? I'm not really a fan of attacking with Charisma (how does it work?)
Warlock was supposed to be INT class, so that's probably the best choice. Not sure if there are any "broken" multiclasses / feats to consider, like Bladesinger or something.
I think there's already too many WIS classes, but could be cool...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I'm not really a fan of attacking with Charisma (how does it work?)

Magic. Your bond with your patron is strong and it rewards you with improved weapon skill (like improved magical ability via higher DCs etc).
 

I've made Hexblade its own class and removed Pact otB and Hexblade from Warlock options. At lvl 5, it automatically gets Thirsting Blade invocation.

What other stat besides Charisma would you use for Pact Weapon? I'm not really a fan of attacking with Charisma (how does it work?)
My view is that any stat can be used as an attack stat, it just represents different styles of combat.

Str: This is the bog standard. But it's not just "you land hard blows," it's also "you physically drive against your foe." Fighting not by being indefatigable, but by fatiguing your enemy first.
Dex: The alt standard. But it's not just "precision hits." It's also "rapid-fire attacks and feints." As Sun Tzu said, "Speed is the essence of war."
Con: As alluded to above, this is fighting by being relentless. Nothing slows you down. Nothing stops your advance. It's both outlasting the enemy and never letting the opponent get a chance to rest. (Humans hunted this way a lot; it's called "persistence" or "endurance" hunting.)

And as for mental...
Int: It's the old adage, "Work smarter, not harder." Prediction, understanding of physics, knowledge of the enemy, tactics, etc. Why make five hundred strikes when you only need to stab the femoral artery once?
Wis: Fighting by awareness. Paraphrasing Sun Tzu, if your form is imperceptible to your enemy while your enemy's form remains perceptible to you, you cannot be defeated. Wis-based fighting is observational and intuitive rather than logical and predictive.
Cha: Employing the psychological in fighting--both on your enemy and on yourself. Confidence, poise, conviction--the unbreakable will to overcome your enemy no matter what.

These are, obviously, also possible to augment with magic, hence "fighting with <mental stat>" could be literally just "I'm weaving my magic into my blows so that, even though my physical skill is inadequate, my magic makes up the difference." That's...kind of what the Hexblade patron and Blade pact represent: literally pouring some of your mojo into being a powerful fighter without having the physique to pull it off the "legitimate" way.

But I doubt you came here to be told "akshully, it DOES make sense." I'm just offering my two bits on why I think it does, in case that might be useful to you.

Warlock was supposed to be INT class, so that's probably the best choice. Not sure if there are any "broken" multiclasses / feats to consider, like Bladesinger or something.
It was? Do you have a citation for that? I've never heard this, and I distinctly remember the playtest Warlock not being Int-based (though it was only with us very briefly, RIP.)

I think there's already too many WIS classes, but could be cool...
Really? There's only Cleric, Ranger, and Monk. Hardly dramatic compared to the four Cha-based classes, Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Really? There's only Cleric, Ranger, and Monk. Hardly dramatic compared to the four Cha-based classes, Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock.
Also druid. There are two pure Wis classes (cleric, druid), three pure Cha (warlock, sorcerer, bard), one Str/Cha (paladin), and two Dex/Wis (ranger, monk).

IMO, warlocks shouldn't even have a primary stat. Play up the idea of power gained by a bargain, from outside yourself. The gods demand wisdom, wizardry requires a keen mind, martial prowess takes physical strength and speed... but the only thing Asmodeus asks is what you're willing to pay.
 

Also druid. There are two pure Wis classes (cleric, druid), three pure Cha (warlock, sorcerer, bard), one Str/Cha (paladin), and two Dex/Wis (ranger, monk).

IMO, warlocks shouldn't even have a primary stat. Play up the idea of power gained by a bargain, from outside yourself. The gods demand wisdom, wizardry requires a keen mind, martial prowess takes physical strength and speed... but the only thing Asmodeus asks is what you're willing to pay.
Use wisdom, but treat negatives as positives and visa versa!
 

ZickZak

Explorer
It was? Do you have a citation for that? I've never heard this, and I distinctly remember the playtest Warlock not being Int-based (though it was only with us very briefly, RIP.)
 

Attachments

  • int.PNG
    int.PNG
    58.5 KB · Views: 47

jgsugden

Legend
...What other stat besides Charisma would you use for Pact Weapon? I'm not really a fan of attacking with Charisma (how does it work?)
I describe it as the blade and arm of the Hexblade being guided by the magic. When an NPC Hexblade is encountered, the movement of the blade is always described as unnaturally quick and precise, as if the weapon were wielding the warlock, and not the other way around.
Warlock was supposed to be INT class, so that's probably the best choice. Not sure if there are any "broken" multiclasses / feats to consider, like Bladesinger or something...
I really do not see how Intelligence ever makes any more sense than Charisma. For either, it has to be a magical force guiding the weapon to make sense. There is no real world example of a slow and weak weapon wielder being highly effective in combat.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:

ECMO3

Hero
What other stat besides Charisma would you use for Pact Weapon? I'm not really a fan of attacking with Charisma (how does it work?

Strength makes the most sense to me and is probably the most balanced.

Removing Hexblade (or getting rid of it) is fine, but I think taking away POB nerfs all the other Warlocks and really narrows eliminates potential melee warlock builds.
 

Interesting. Bit surprised about that TBH. I always thought of Warlocks as wheeling and dealing, you know, making risky deals and having the force of personality to not be crushed beneath said deals.
 

Strength actually makes a certain amount of sense. Obviously it makes sense in terms of attacking with the Pact Weapon, but since the Hexblade's patron is a literal weapon, it is sort of fitting to base some of their actual Warlock abilities on it as well.
As a weapon, I can see the Hexblade's patron being impressed by, and insisting on a user with the power and control to wield them fittingly.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
It is about AC.

Unless you have heavy armor or equivalent, dex is a srcondary stat; you'll want 14. AC is just too useful.

Strength has a hill to climb. With finess weapons, you can use Dex instead of Strength and do fine. With alt-attack-stat, Strength is again only useful if you have heavy armor.

...

One thing I have played with is half stat, but add.

Ie, you add 1/2 of your int (round up) to weapon attacks with your Hexblade if the weapon is not otherwise magically accurate. If it does have a magical bonus to hit, this bonus is reduced to +1.

In addition, if the attack is dex based, add 1/2 of your int (round up) to damage; if strength based, add int to damage.

This is a bit complex. But it does avoid over-stacking with artificer int-to-attack, balances dex and str choices, and maintains bounded accuracy.

It also avoids the trope of swingibg a greatsword with 8 str; the hexblade magic makes middling str/dex usable, but not ignorable.

Max stacked, this is +8 to hit/+10 to damage with str/int, or +8/+8 with dex. With a +3 weapon it becomes +9 to hit/13 or 11 to damage (before proficiency)

A 16 int/14 dex character starts out with +6/+4; a 16 int/14 dex/14 str with +6/+5.

Duelist fighters with 18 attack stat are +6/+6. Archers are +8/+4.

Going for an extreme, 18 str/14 int is +7/+6.

So this is strong, but not out of bounds. May still be a little too good.
 
Last edited:

DND_Reborn

Legend
I've made Hexblade its own class and removed Pact otB and Hexblade from Warlock options. At lvl 5, it automatically gets Thirsting Blade invocation.

What other stat besides Charisma would you use for Pact Weapon? I'm not really a fan of attacking with Charisma (how does it work?)
Warlock was supposed to be INT class, so that's probably the best choice. Not sure if there are any "broken" multiclasses / feats to consider, like Bladesinger or something.
I think there's already too many WIS classes, but could be cool...
We (sort of) did something similar just recently, so I am pleased to see we aren't alone.

First, we rolled Sorcerer in Wizard, so Wizards get metamagic and the Sorcerer class is gone. (There are many nerfs to wizards in our mod, so this became there "thing" like Clerics get Channel Divinity and Druids get Wild Shape.)

Second, Bards became Universal half-casters. They only get up to 5th level spells, but there is no longer a Bard spell list--they can learn from any spell list.

Third, Warlocks became half-casters for Wizards, akin to Paladins for Clerics and Rangers for Druids. This means they gain Extra Attack at 5th level now. We felt with all their Eldritch Invocations, they fit nicely as a half-caster class. In this process, they now use INT for their spellcasting ability, to mirror Wizards.

Fourth, Clerics now use Charisma as their spellcasting ability, due to the concept of Conviction which is part of Charisma. This allows Clerics and Paladins to both use Charisma. Druids and Rangers both use Wisdom. This gives us a pair of caster/half-caster for each INT, WIS, and CHA; and allows Bards to be the universal half-caster.

Now, do you still have a non-Hexblade Warlock class? Or are you really just giving all warlocks the Hexblade subclass and allowing them to choose a second subclass on top of that??
 

Dungeon Delver's Guide

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top