Hextor and Heironeous's common parent?

[Erik Mona]

Dum dee doo dee dum dee doo.

The "official" viewpoint is that Stern Alia (a throw-away goddess whose church was mentioned as a political force in Medegia WAY back in the pregenerated characters for Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan) is the mother of Hextor and Heironeous. She's an Oeridian demigod of Oeridian Culture, Law, and Motherhood, roughly analogous to the way the Virgin Mary was worshipped in the Medieval period by certain European sects and cults. She's LN, with many of her Flanaess priests favoring the Lawful Evil alignment (which helped them out a lot in Medegia).

Her worship as a divine being was largely limited to the See of Medegia, which was all but destroyed during the Greyhawk Wars. It's unlikely that much of her political apparatus exists to this day. Her domains, per Living Greyhawk Journal #3, are Knowledge, Law, and Protection. Her favored weapon is a Heavy Mace.

Thusfar, Hextor and Heironeous's fathers (who would be different people) have not been identified. I sort of favor them not pegging them to specific Oerth deities. Perhaps they were mortals? Perhaps no mortals know who these mysterious figures were?

When Chris Pramas was developing the backstory of Chainmail, he essentially incorporated these ideas into that setting, naming Alia the "Shield Mother," and making her a patron of the human kingdom of Thalos, which is infused with a great deal of Oeridian blood from ancient trans-oceanic voyages. The Alia worshipped in Chainmail is LN with most clerics tending toward lawful good (I believe), which sets up an interesting dichotomy with the old Medegian branch of her worship.

There is an assertion in a footnote of "The Adventure Begins" that claims Stern Alia and Allitur are the same person. It's worthy of note that the authors of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer chose to completely ignore this assertion on the grounds that, frankly, the above scenario seemed more interesting to us and seemed more workable in a place like Medegia. So, as far as "official" canon goes, Allitur and Alia are not the same entity.

Hope that's helpful.

--Erik Mona
Editor, Living Greyhawk Journal

 

[Voadam]

What chainmail source has the Stern Alia reference? Is it the WotC miniatures or the Pre D&D Chainmail?

While immaculate conception is possible for one of the two, the other would need a set of two parents to make them half siblings, for instance, Hercules (Zeus and a mortal) and Athena (popped out of Zeus' head, no mom) could be considered half siblings. If they both popped out of the same solo being then they would be full siblings.

BtW I thought it was clear from NLPs original post that he was referencing a websource not a published cannon one and that it was ontopic to the original question.

The fan support sites developed a lot of in-depth material that can be useful.

 

[grodog]

FYI folks, TalMeta's web site is www.talmeta.net.

[snip]
When Chris Pramas was developing the backstory of Chainmail, he essentially incorporated these ideas into that setting, naming Alia the "Shield Mother," and making her a patron of the human kingdom of Thalos, which is infused with a great deal of Oeridian blood from ancient trans-oceanic voyages.

Hey Erik, does Chainmail make other vague references to Mentzer's Aquaria (or am I reading too much into what you said)?

If I wanted to get the good Greyhawk content from Chainmail, which books should I pick up?

Thanks!

 

[Deedlit]

It doesn't contain his write-up.

 

[radferth]

If one looks at any earthly pantheon, the Greek for instance, you will notice that a family tree will include many being not necesarrily worshipped as gods. It is therefore quite likely that any given deity has relatives not mentioned in any official material. If one follows what has been written by TSR/WOTC, then Hextor and Heironeous started out as half-brothers with no other relations mentioned. I know nothing about the new chainmail, but WOTC seems to have decided to name Alia as their mother, which works as well as any.

Some additional H&H trivia. Rob Kuntz mentioned somewhere on the Greytalk list that Hextor and Heironeous were both part of the nine "demigods" imprisoned in Castle Greyhawk in EGG's original Greyhawk campaign. In the Greyhawk campaign I run, Heironeous and Hextor are actually the same being, although no mortal knows this. They two priesthoods resulted from factionalization of the Oeridian was cult in ancient times now forgotten. Definitely not cannon, but I like how it explains the intense fratricide between the two cults.

 

[grodog]

It doesn't contain his write-up.

Yes it does:

http://www.talmeta.net/runequest/greyhawk/rqgods.htm

 

[Regdar]

Bah

That's pretty pathetic, Regdar. As has been pointed out, if you accept as 'the truth' merely whatever the latest, changeable word is from whoever's running Greyhawk this month, 'the truth' is inherently changeable, so there's not much point debating it. Why not look at the original source material? The new stuff is all derived from it, anyway. It's the base the rest is built on. If you take away the base there's nothing to build on, it's all completely ephemeral.

Bah, Greyhawk has changed, has been altered by many writers, and what it is today, is what is official. Pathetic is your adherance to the old ways for the shear sake of fighting change.

Now, the matter of the brothers parents has been clarified. Regdar would like to know, when some of the chainmail story/source material will be identified Erik, or is that going to the trash heap as well.

 

[grodog]

I'll second that curiosity Redgar

Also, FWIW, I don't accept any and all GH books as canon for my GH research, whether writing articles in Living Greyhawk Journal or in my own games: some GH materials are certainly better than others, and I tend to go with the quality.

That's a completely biased and arbitrary standard, but so have some of the decisions in the past that have shaped Greyhawk throughout its various incarnations. For official writing, I tend to stick with official materials owned by WotC (for as long as they're writing the checks), but that certainly doesn't preclude introducing new material nor does it preclude referencing shadier, quasi-canon sources. For fan writing, I use whatever suits my mood, including materials that don't originate with the D&D system, much less Greyhawk.

Literary canon is a list that flexes, changing with the times, and Greyhawk canon is no different. It's a tool that you use to decide what works and doesn't work for your own Greyhawk games, or for the official setting, depending on where your work appears.

Just some more thoughts.

 

[S'mon]

Re: Bah

Bah, Greyhawk has changed, has been altered by many writers, and what it is today, is what is official. Pathetic is your adherance to the old ways for the shear sake of fighting change.

Now, the matter of the brothers parents has been clarified. Regdar would like to know, when some of the chainmail story/source material will be identified Erik, or is that going to the trash heap as well.

Fool! One day the Dark God Tharizgygax will rise again, crush all you pathetic usurpers, and set Oerth to rights! And as it was in the Beginning, so it will be in the End!

 

[grodog]

* cough *