Hide in Plain Sight and Darkvision

[LokiDR]

Darkvision is fooled by Hide/HiPS. If you had an ability that made you all black all over and you stood in a dark area.. Darkvision would see through that. If you had an ability that made you camoflaged with your surroundings by way of changing your color to match the color around you.. Darkvision would see through that.

Yes, just being mat-black in the dark doesn't help against Darkvision.

Spells/items that change your color do fool Darkvision. Cloak of the Elvenkind, Robe of Blending, and the Camouflage spell don't mention any change in their effects if the view is color-blind (such as Darkvision)

 

[LokiDR]

Yep, indeed it is. The best defense against a shadowdancer is to turn on all the lights and move around alot. Failing that, a rope with a weight on the end works good. Just swing it around in a big circle and wait for it to snag on something that isn't there.

I had guessed about darkness and HiPS.

I don't think your rope solution is workable. They could just duck. I wouldn't let that work against invisibility either. Maybe it would let you get a direction at best, but not pinpoint

 

[Sejs]

*nod* the rope thing was a stop-gap my group started doing when fighting a BBEG assassin with HiPS. It's far (far..far..) from perfect, but it beats nothing. The way we do it is an opposed Use Rope check (because, hey.. any use for Use Rope is a good thing) vs Reflex save. Success gives you an idea of which 90-degree arc the person is in when the rope snagged on them.


^_^

Edit/Additional: Oh yeah, and swinging the rope is a full round action to perform.

 

[Sejs]

Spells/items that change your color do fool Darkvision. Cloak of the Elvenkind, Robe of Blending, and the Camouflage spell don't mention any change in their effects if the view is color-blind (such as Darkvision)

Yeah, basically Cloak of Elvenkind, Robe of Blending, and the Camo spell get around darkvision by way of adding to the hide check. Nah, what I was trying to say was that being color-matched to the background alone doesn't help versus darkvision. You still have to successfully hide.

 

[LokiDR]

*nod* the rope thing was a stop-gap my group started doing when fighting a BBEG assassin with HiPS. It's far (far..far..) from perfect, but it beats nothing. The way we do it is an opposed Use Rope check (because, hey.. any use for Use Rope is a good thing) vs Reflex save. Success gives you an idea of which 90-degree arc the person is in when the rope snagged on them.


^_^

Edit/Additional: Oh yeah, and swinging the rope is a full round action to perform.

Not a bad little house rule. I may have to steal that some time in the future. Invisibility/hiding can be beyond dangerous to the party if they don't know how to deal with them.

 

[Magac]

BUT

DO shadows exist for darkvison for the Shadowdancer to hide in?

Ie a dorf and an elf in a partially lit area are being snuck up on by a shadowdancer using his HIPS skill.

The Dorf uses darkvision as it is unaffected by light sources. Therefore the light sources dont create shadows for the dorf as he can see in the dark perfectly well.

But the elf cant see the Shadowdancer because to the elf there ae shadows.

Or does Darkvision allow shadows to be cast?

 

[LokiDR]

Re: BUT

DO shadows exist for darkvison for the Shadowdancer to hide in?

Ie a dorf and an elf in a partially lit area are being snuck up on by a shadowdancer using his HIPS skill.

The Dorf uses darkvision as it is unaffected by light sources. Therefore the light sources dont create shadows for the dorf as he can see in the dark perfectly well.

But the elf cant see the Shadowdancer because to the elf there ae shadows.

Or does Darkvision allow shadows to be cast?

Shadow is a question of light. It doesn't matter if you don't use light to see, as HiPS is a supernatural ability. If you do or do not see the shadow, it is there. Because it is there, the ShadowDancer can hide. Darkvision does not negate hiding.

 

[Kemrain]

But in a completely dark environment, are there shadows? Don't you need light to be blocked to create a shadow? Would HipS work properly in total darkness?

- Kemrain the Confused

 

[GrassyKnoll]

Shadow is a question of light. It doesn't matter if you don't use light to see, as HiPS is a supernatural ability. If you do or do not see the shadow, it is there. Because it is there, the ShadowDancer can hide. Darkvision does not negate hiding

Darkvision is also a supernatural ability. The whole descriptive content of HIPS is that you can hide in (or near) a shadow, no matter how small as long as its not your own, but shadows DO NOT exsist for PC/NPCs with Darkvision.

No, Darkvision does not negate hiding, but if a Rogue was hiding in the shadowy corner of a room, Darkvision would spot him. If the Rogue was hiding BEHIND something in the same shadowy corner of the room, he would not.

We where looking to see if this had been answered before by the Sage or covered by some Errata that I had missed, and I am amazed that it has not been brought up before. To everyone else its a matter of opinions (interpratations of the rules) and house rules.

Unfortunatly for the Shadowdancer in question, young Magac above (why Magac mate? Rather than Rallets?), our DM is in the 'Darvision > HipS' camp, and will not be swayed unless officially it says somewhere 'oh, sorry, we meant it to mean this...'

 

[Magac]

Cos Rallets may turn up elsewhere

Kemrain Shadows are the absence of light so total darkness is effectivly a total shadow.

IE you are in a cave, the light of the sun is blocked by the rocks above. Its just a very very very dark shadow. Which is why the problem arises. You can see in total shadow with darkvison err

ugh my brain I just got hit by 8 conflicting arguments for and against. ok really need a definate answer from the sage I reckon

Basically put does darkvision negate Hide in plain sight.