Pathfinder 1E Hide in Plain Sight = poor man's invisibility?

Particle_Man

Explorer
I have a Barbarian 5/Shadowdancer 1 and just gained Hide in Plain Sight. So, if I am within 10 feet of shadows, I can hit a guy in meelee and in the same round use a move action to hide in plain sight, and if my stealth beats the guy's perception, I am effectively hidden? I imagine the guy could guess the square I am in easily enough, but I still get a 50% miss chance for total concealment? (I guess not versus people with darkvision though).
 

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It works fine versus targets with darkvision - The ability of the target to see in the dark makes no difference to the character hiding in plain sight - he gets to make a stealth check "even while being observed" if within 10 ft of an area of dim light.

The ability doesn't just require "shadows" it requires "dim light". From the online d20pfsrd "Areas of dim light include outside at night with a moon in the sky, bright starlight, and the area between 20 and 40 feet from a torch." Which is a bit more than merely a shadow.

There are also many ways to counter the ability - the simplest is readying an action to attack the character.
 

The ability doesn't just require "shadows" it requires "dim light".

Dim light and shadows are the same. This can be seen in the FAQ on the shadowdancer where people thought the shadowdancer was weaker than the assasin, or vice versa, I forgot.

Think both of these terms refer to any lighting that is more than darkness, yet less than the light of a torch.

Think it goes like this:

Darkness > Dim light/Shadows > Normal Light > Bright Light/Daylight
 


It doesn't count as a shadow if the opponent has darkvision, because darkvision trumps all visibility issues regarding normal visible light.
 

First off, [MENTION=72335]Ashtagon[/MENTION] is likely not correct on this one: dim light can exist in an area whether or not a given creature can see within it or not. A Shadowdancer's HiPS ability is (Su) - it works by bending an existing dimness from a shadowy area into an obfuscating glamer or something, and is an active ability that has nothing to do with the sensory capabilities of bystanders.

Second, HiPS is effectively much better than Invisibility, because you're not subject to any of the magics that make that spell obsolete (except Glitterdust). Even a creature able to see invisible things cannot detect you by sight while Hiding in Plain Sight!
 

First off, @Ashtagon is likely not correct on this one: dim light can exist in an area whether or not a given creature can see within it or not. A Shadowdancer's HiPS ability is (Su).

That's true, yet at the same time, for a Pathfinder Ranger, the 17th level Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) is an Extraordinary Power, not a Superior Power...

RAW doesn't state that thing about bending light (sounds reasonable, but it's not in the rules...), not sure where you got that concept.
 

First off, @Ashtagon is likely not correct on this one: dim light can exist in an area whether or not a given creature can see within it or not. A Shadowdancer's HiPS ability is (Su) - it works by bending an existing dimness from a shadowy area into an obfuscating glamer or something, and is an active ability that has nothing to do with the sensory capabilities of bystanders.

Second, HiPS is effectively much better than Invisibility, because you're not subject to any of the magics that make that spell obsolete (except Glitterdust). Even a creature able to see invisible things cannot detect you by sight while Hiding in Plain Sight!

The (Ex)/(Su)/(Sp) distinction is only relevant for the purpose of antii-magic and dispel magic type effects. For anything else, it is not relevant.

D&D does not have any kind of "because magic" I-win button. There are plenty of I-win buttons, to be sure. But simply being magical isn't in and of itself sufficient to beat everything. Magic swords don't beat DR 500/adamantite, and magic hips don't beat darkvision.
 

The (Ex)/(Su)/(Sp) distinction is only relevant for the purpose of antii-magic and dispel magic type effects. For anything else, it is not relevant.

No. Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical. I don't see someone able to learn to bend light around them through training, however extensive. Spell-like and Supernatural abilities are magical. From this flows the impact of anti-magic and dispelling effects. These never affect extraordinary abilities because extraordinary abilities are never magical.

The Ranger HiPS is Extraordinary, but the Assassin and ShadowDancer are Supernatural.

To the OP, I'd say your action is possible. Of course, you need to be with 10' of a dimly lit area. What you and your team use for light may impact whether that condition is met.

Creatures with Scent or other unusual senses can overcome this pretty easily (high perception helps), and casters can fire off something Area Effect in your general direction. If you only move 5', I suspect it's pretty easy for attackers to guess your square, and moving more means foregoing a full round attack. Of course, you will also need to move in to attack on your next turn. Or you could just stay hidden in shadows, I suppose, but there's no reason the opponents will chase after you rather than finishing the rest of the team off.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm said:
Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)

Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.



These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field.
Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are standard actions unless otherwise noted.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)

Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.



A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.


A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell:


Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated.


A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A spell-like ability that can be used at will has no use limit.


For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is:
10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier.
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.


Some creatures are actually sorcerers of a sort. They cast arcane spells as sorcerers do, using components when required. In fact, an individual creature could have some spell-like abilities and also cast other spells as a sorcerer.
Supernatural Abilities (Su)

Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is:
10 + ½ the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma).
 
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Thank you for quoting the SRD at me.

I see lines that say Su hips are beaten by AMF, while Ex hips aren't.

I don['t see anything that indicates that either version of hips can beat darkvision.
 

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