D&D 5E (2014) High Passive Perception
- Thread starter randrak
- Start date
Helldritch
Hero
That player specialized in perception, so why not let him do his stuff and see everything? In fact, you should consider that a huge bonus for you. He did not choose some wacky combo that lets him do crazy amount of dmg. He took a defense skill and raise it above the norm. Kuddo on him for that. But maybe your problem comes from some missunderstanding of the skill...
Perception is great to spot obvious (and not so obvious) ennemy. Be it an ennemy in hiding (or invisible), listening/evesdropping a conversation or just spotting the incongruous thing once in a while (an orc breathing and lying in ambush behind a secret door...) But it won't let you find a trap, or a secret door. You might know that something is amiss, but you'll have to get an other skill for that.
Investigation is the key to your problem. You will find that this skill is even more important. It lets you find the traps, the secret doors and all the other yaddi yadda related from searching a room up to perusing old books for clues about an astrological event.
IF you feel generous, you might let perception help you find the position of the secret door once in a while, especialy if it helps your player make some progress in the story (hey guys, our torch flickered for no reason, there must be a secret door nearby) or (the secret door must be behind that bookshelf, see the marks on the floor...) but the perception skill won't let you open it. You have to use investigation to find the way to open it nor will it let you disable a trap (Hey guys! These holes in these walls are strangely suspicious, must be a trap. But how is this trap triggered... I really don't know.)
Yes, with such a high perception, your dreams of ambushing them are, for all intent and purpose, over. In fact, as soon as someone gets 16 or above in passive perception, you're toast on that. In a sense, the observant feat is somewhat of an overkill in that area. The real question is if the player has both perception and investigation above 20.This would mean 18 in both intelligence and wisdom...(or a rogue with both skills in expertise and a 14 in both stats). Now your in a bit of a trouble but remember that the observant feat does not increase the skill as whole but only the passive part. In fact, the observant feat raise only your passive skill, not your active skill use. The said rogue mentionned above would still make an active roll at +6, not +11.
With such a character you'll have to use other tactics like reinforcements, waves of monsters, boss fights and whatever means are necessary to further your adventures. Seeing reinforcement in the middle of fight might be done with disadvantage (negating the passive bonus). Allowing some assassins to creep on your group and achieve some minor surprise effects.
In resumé, remember this. Knowing about something does nothing to counter it. You still have to do something with the information gained.
Perception is great to spot obvious (and not so obvious) ennemy. Be it an ennemy in hiding (or invisible), listening/evesdropping a conversation or just spotting the incongruous thing once in a while (an orc breathing and lying in ambush behind a secret door...) But it won't let you find a trap, or a secret door. You might know that something is amiss, but you'll have to get an other skill for that.
Investigation is the key to your problem. You will find that this skill is even more important. It lets you find the traps, the secret doors and all the other yaddi yadda related from searching a room up to perusing old books for clues about an astrological event.
IF you feel generous, you might let perception help you find the position of the secret door once in a while, especialy if it helps your player make some progress in the story (hey guys, our torch flickered for no reason, there must be a secret door nearby) or (the secret door must be behind that bookshelf, see the marks on the floor...) but the perception skill won't let you open it. You have to use investigation to find the way to open it nor will it let you disable a trap (Hey guys! These holes in these walls are strangely suspicious, must be a trap. But how is this trap triggered... I really don't know.)
Yes, with such a high perception, your dreams of ambushing them are, for all intent and purpose, over. In fact, as soon as someone gets 16 or above in passive perception, you're toast on that. In a sense, the observant feat is somewhat of an overkill in that area. The real question is if the player has both perception and investigation above 20.This would mean 18 in both intelligence and wisdom...(or a rogue with both skills in expertise and a 14 in both stats). Now your in a bit of a trouble but remember that the observant feat does not increase the skill as whole but only the passive part. In fact, the observant feat raise only your passive skill, not your active skill use. The said rogue mentionned above would still make an active roll at +6, not +11.
With such a character you'll have to use other tactics like reinforcements, waves of monsters, boss fights and whatever means are necessary to further your adventures. Seeing reinforcement in the middle of fight might be done with disadvantage (negating the passive bonus). Allowing some assassins to creep on your group and achieve some minor surprise effects.
In resumé, remember this. Knowing about something does nothing to counter it. You still have to do something with the information gained.
ExploderWizard
Hero
It isn't really that big a deal. I have found that overall, perception bonuses for the most part fail miserably to keep up with stealth bonuses. In practical terms this makes most competent perceptive adventurers on par with a blind man when attempting to spot hidden creatures. A 21 passive is REALLY good but once mid levels are reached its a fair bet that this character won't be able to find the party rogue even half the time, and you can change that to never if the rogue ever gets a cloak of elvenkind.
So don't worry too much.
FrogReaver
The most respectful and polite poster ever
Something that can help, while still giving the player the benefit of his resources, is to ignore the "official" method of using Passive Perception. Rather than using the passive score against a passive DC, which creates a ton of problems in it's own right, turn the DC into an active check with a bonus equal to the DC -9 against the player's passive perception. The player will still notice just about everything (as they should), but occasionally you'll roll high enough to cause them to miss something. This will keep a bit of spice in the game, while still granting the player their properly earned benefit.
Oh, and for those that consider this a houserule (because RAW!), this is how Mike Mearls suggested using Passive checks long before Perkins "clarified" the use of Passive Perception.
Oh, and for those that consider this a houserule (because RAW!), this is how Mike Mearls suggested using Passive checks long before Perkins "clarified" the use of Passive Perception.
If their passive is higher than the DC, they see it. Same as always. They just Don't miss much.
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using EN World mobile app
I don't like comparing passive DCs. I like one side to roll. Although I convert the DCs to bonuses by subtracting 10.
ExploderWizard
Hero
A little to pvp focused
Nothing to do with PVP. Our games feature a lot of classed NPCs. The comparison to the party rogue was for an ability gauge at roughly equal levels.
Stealth & hiding generally outstrips the ability to perceive it rather quickly as the levels go up was the point. A rogue gets a special extra action just to hide, then someone trying to find them has to spend their actual action to search, and if they happen to beat the stealth check by some miracle then they can't do much about it because it took their action just to locate the rogue. Meanwhile the rogue gets regular actions then gets an extra action to hide in a new spot starting the whole process over again.
So in effect, dumping all of your resources into perception is a very steep price to pay for a benefit with a fairly short payoff period. At the very least, the DM should let the character enjoy the limited benefits while they last.
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