Holiday Present - The Elf PHB entry

[Banshee16]

These are actually the things I like the most. The life span thing was always weird from a PC perspective. Trying to explain why every single elf character apparently wasted the first 100 years of their development and ended up as the equivalent of a 17 year old human at age 120.

This was explained in both 2nd and 3rd Edition following the PHB. Several supplements, including the Complete Book of Elves and Otherlands (Dragonlance) pointed out that elves were adult by about 30, and Races of the Wild did the same thing in 3E. I never found it a difficult concept.

Similar to how in our reality, a 14-year old *could* be self-sufficient in past centuries, and was old enough to have children, whereas now, people are often entering their late 20's or 30's before they leave their parents' homes.

Banshee

 

[Stone Dog]

I could see the elf granting a bonus if he himself succeeds on the check, but if the elf doesn't notice the (whatever), why would that make his nearby non-elf companions more likely to notice?

"Shh. I think I just failed a Perception check."

 

[Banshee16]

Elves in particular are a Tolkienesque element and they don't really make much sense out of the context of Middle Earth, or at least a setting that emulates Middle Earth in many ways. That said, there are some elements of 4E that seem they will actually make doing Tolkienesque fantasy easier than other editions -- so long as certain elements can be easily excised from either the system or the flavour, as applicable.

Why are elves just Tolkienesque? They're also inspired by Celtic myth (ie. the Sidhe), the Alfar and Dock-Alfar of Norse myth, , the Melniborean, etc. etc.

Banshee

 

[lbporter]

Group Awareness is about emphasizing teamw

The Group Awareness ability seems to follow the trend of valuing teamwork in 4thE. I am willing to bet that all races in the PHB have some ability to help the whole party, I am not talking about an aura, but something that gives the party a nice little bonus. As for the distance in a non combat situation either you are spread out and you don’t get it, or you are reasonably grouped so you do (that is assuming the elf is not off scouting, which it looks like they will be very good at).

I would like to thank Bill Slavicsek, and all of those at WotC and I wish y’all happy holidays. Thanks for the present, sorry I didn’t get you anything.

Luke

 

[Pbartender]

What if the elf is instinctually directing those nearby to focus on their surroundings in a more general sense, or coordinating the vision and hearing angles of the party?

I still like the basic idea of being a "role model" for the other characters, thereby passively making them better. It makes sense for this sort of "aura" power, and is the sort of explanation that has examples in real life.

 

[kennew142]

But to be honest that why people play D&D they are looking for that Tolken'esk feel... if you want diffrent take on elves I know a lot of 3rd party publishers have done there own take

I'm especially fond of the elorii in Arcanis, with their elemental heritage and excellent backgound (I hate the term fluff). I can't wait to see them in a 4e adaption.

 

[kennew142]

Lifespan's one of the first things to Rule 0 for me. Not very Fey-like at all. I prefer my Fey long-lived....as in centuries or millenia. I'm not a huge fan of change for the sake of change, and roleplaying wise...most gamers I've played with haven't been good enough roleplayers in the first place for their lifespan to become an issue. But the change causes havoc with a whole bunch of other things in the game.....to say nothing of the fact that I just don't like it.

On the other hand, many of us have been using house rules to shorten elven lifespans since the 70s.

 

[wordsmithpdx]

That "never cut living trees" line is still a bit bothersome, but eh.

I hear you, but I'll be mollified if there are game mechanics (simple rituals or spells, skill write-ups, etc.) that let you do things like "remove a part of a living tree with magic" or craft bows and arrows from living wood or somesuch.

I guess they really want to stress the "harmony with nature" aspect of these elves, and to a lot of the general public who live in a modern society and never have to eek a living out of nature, it can be hard to pin down the difference between subsistence pioneers (humans), native folks living in harmony with nature (elves), and so on. Heck, it can be hard for the authors to differentiate. Easier to just make it clear-cut (pun intended).

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

On the other hand, many of us have been using house rules to shorten elven lifespans since the 70s.

I haven't been doing it since the 70s, but yeah, this is another one of those "Hey, my house rules are official now!" moments for me. Given how much of fantasy is built on lost histories, having an entire race of people that live for hundreds of year is kind of problematic.

Do note that this isn't actually that much of a change, though. As the 3.5 PHB/SRD notes, "The maximum ages are for player characters. Most people in the world at large die from pestilence, accidents, infections, or violence before getting to venerable age," indicating that most elves die before 350.

 

[wordsmithpdx]

That said, a freely-assigned +2 - or just a higher point value, since they're going with point buy as the default - would be pretty cool for humans.

I like the higher point-buy idea, since you can really tweak numbers for good efficiency there. The prob with a freely-assigned +2 is that, in any stat generation system where you can place your numbers, it's kinda pointless. Why not just pick a race that has the stat you would've applied the +2 to?

I'm hoping humans have much more to keep them on par than just stat "flexibility" (although I'm optimistic about it...Wizards did a great job with humans in 3E/3.5, I think). Something to do with persistence (though that could be dwarven territory)?