Holy Water or other weapons for undead?

[Dire Human]

This is incorrect. Ongoing damage doesn't get extra damage from things like feats or magic items because they only apply to damage rolls, and/or on attacks/hits however vulnerability applies any time you take damage, which includes ongoing damage.

I updated my Alchemical-inspired Holy Water to compensate.

On average, assuming Radiant Vulnerability 5, the undead creature will take ~9.7 damage over 5 turns, compared to Alchemists' Fire's 2.6 average immediate damage. Is the lack of a "Miss: Half Damage", the requirement of a Radiant Vulnerability, and the fact that it's over time enough to balance this out? Or should I be figuring out a way to lower the damage on each "tick"?

 

[LowSpine]

Minions should, probably, only die on a direct hit, but auras should kill them - but probably only a static aura where the minion is pushed or walks into it.

Otherwise you could light some incense and run around like an undead minion fumigator/lawnmower (or hippy - they do that you know - prancing around stinking the place out with incense and other stuff.)

Bloody hippies.

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

I was going to just assume that a hit with holy water would kill a minion, fudging the "any damage kills" to "any hit kills" for this purpose. I had noticed that none of the Keep minion undead had Radiant vulnerability, and this seemed easiest.

If there's an aura, like a power radiating out from the cleric to keep the undead at bay, then the minions don't enter the aura. They either fear it or sense that it is too strong for them. This is works out nice, since it allows their death knight boss to enter the aura anyway, as long as he's willing to take the damage.

 

[tintagel]

Here's my take. Pretty much uses the new mechanics for alchemical items (flat bonus to hit) and based off the Alchemist Fire.

 

[Bleoberis De Ganis]

My (former 3.x) players asked me the same thing. So I let them buy holy water for 25 gp per vial.

Thrown Holy Water
Standard Action Ranged 3/6
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 0 radiant damage

Nothing too exiting really, but they liked being able to get it.

There was a thread from just after shadowfell was released and we decided on basically this design (before the core books were released)

Now I have seen the full rules I would probably alter it.

Thrown Holy Water
Standard Action Ranged 3/6
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 0 radiant damage
Secondary Target: Each creature adjacent to the primary target
Secondary Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 0 radiant damage

Sprayed Holy Water
Standard Action Close Blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 0 radiant damage

I would add ongoing damage for a better version (blessed by a Bishop or something - water collected from a holy river - etc) with a higher cost. Assuming the water's holiness is defiled when it hits undead flesh.


In addition I would make the process of creating it a ritual.

LESSER WATER BLESSING

Level: 1 Component Cost: 50 gp
Category: Creation Market Price: 100 gp
Time: 1 hour Key Skill: Religion (no check)
Duration: Permanent
until consumed

You create a vial of holy water used in religious rituals and in combat against undead.

 

[Ryujin]

Holy Hand Grenade <insert more suitable name>

Definitely the wrong name. Everyone knows that Holy Hand Grenades only work on Vorpal Bunnies.

I think the "0 radiant" is a good choice. It makes it useful, but not over-powered when compared to actual character powers. Include the property that it can be used to create a blockage (drawing a circle or line that causes the same effect when the undead cross it) and I think you're home free.

 

[cmbarona]

Yeah, I should pitch in that I was a 4e newb when I first saw the 0 radiant idea. Now that I know (almost?) all undead are vulnerable to radiant damage, I have to say it's a really good idea. Doesn't their vulnerability scale with higher tiers? This should keep it useful at later levels.

 

[Bleoberis De Ganis]

LESSER WATER BLESSING

Level: 1 Component Cost: 50 gp
Category: Creation Market Price: 100 gp
Time: 1 hour Key Skill: Religion (no check)
Duration: Permanent
until consumed

You create a vial of holy water used in religious rituals and in combat against undead.

EDIT ADD ON:

The 50 gp component cost is for a crystal vial that is needed to keep the water holy while in transit. If holy water is blessed within a religious building such as a temple or church the water will remain effective within that building (in a font for example) and does not require the 50 gp component cost until such time as it is taken out of that sanctified building.

 

[Ryujin]

A permanent ritual to consecrate ground sounds good, although it sounds like a paragon-level thing.

The 3rd level ritual "Undead Ward" or the 5th level ritual "Magic Circle" seem to fit the bill nicely.