D&D 5E Homebrewed Warlord on a Rogue chassis

[doctorbadwolf]

hmm I'll think about something... I might do a V2 once I figure out how to word it and stuff.

In the meantime, do you see anything else a Signal could do that I haven't covered?

Rather than go from memeory, I will try to do another thorough read through tonight or tomorrow before work, and let you know. I’ll also go over the ardent again.

 

[Garthanos]

Still hoping for design notes

 

[Garthanos]

Well, spells are in alphabetical order with no regard to their levels

And how many to choose from them poor poor wizards must be overwhelmed.

 

[Undrave]

Still hoping for design notes

Alright, let's do some...

HD : I felt that I wanted the Warlord to be tougher than a Rogue, but the 5e Rogue is as tough as a Cleric too, however the 5e Rogue has a TON of defensive abilities that make its lower HP last longer, but I was going to trade those features in for support abilites! So a Warlord wouldn't be as hard to hit. At first I felt like d10 was maybe a little too much? It's the HD of Fighters, Paladin and Rangers after all... But then I considered that a Warlord would want good Mental stats and a good Attack stat so there would be less incentive to invest in CON and, eventually, the Warlord would have less HP over 20 level than the other more Martial types. So low defenses and low CON made it feel balanced justified to go with the D10.

Armors : I felt like Heavy Armor was too much, but I also don't expect a non-archer Warlord to have much in term of DEX. The Shield is there to compensate for that and maybe push them towards a lower damaging weapon.

Weapons : This felt a bit difficult, but looking at how the Rogue got access to Rapier and the Monk has specific weapons. I decided not to give the Warlord access to ALL the martial weapons, just a handful. I wanted to give them damage type option, so I made sure to include piercing, slashing and bludgeoning weapons. I felt the Pike was the iconic phalanx weapon so a Warlord would be a good class to use it. I ended up throwin the Halberd in mostly for damage type coverage. I decided I would keep Longbow and Heavy Crossbow away from the base class, however. I got a subclass in mind that gets it.

Saving Throws : I picked Wisdom as their Strong Save since I figured a mental one would be better. There's a bit more support for CHA and INT in the class so far so Wisdom proficiency helps keep a decent bonus. INT felt like the best 'Weak Save' to throw in, but CHA could have also been there.

Skills and tools : I wanted the Warlord to feel cultured and clever, but not be an actual skill monkey like a Bard or a Rogue, hence why they don't get as many skills as the Rogue. They do get a pick of different tools instead of just one. It's a bit annoying how the Rogue and Criminal Background double up on Thieves Tools ya know?

The tools I picked were the ones I felt match the image I had in mind of a learned warrior like the Warlord. Enoguh room to add some personality and not double up with your background too.

Skills wise I feel like I could put Perception in there, and I know I'd have plenty of reason to put ALL the CHA skills in there. At the same time, Perception is a very desirable skill and I felt it would be a lot to have all the 'good' skills in the same class so I kept it limited to Insight and didn't put Deception in the list. If you can get all the skills you want just by picking a good class it lessens the impact of your background.

Equipment : This was a tough one. I looked at the Rogue, looked at the Ranger and Cleric as well to get a feel for the sort of load out that works. I don't know if anyone would ever pick the Javelins option but it's always there for STR classes so why not? Should I replace the Longsword and Shield option with Shortsword and Shield? Is that too good? What was important is that you could get a totally different vibe from a character just by what equipment options a player pick.

Battlefield Insight : I just really like the idea of generating the ressource you expend to do your Warlordy thing. One thing that was important to me from the get go was the concept that you could be Warlord-like on every turn. You don't need to rest to be a Warlord again, just as you don't need to rest to be do Sneak Attacks as a Rogue, nor do you need a rest to get the bonus from your Fighting -style, or to use a Cantrip. So taking the Sneak Attack mechanic and applying it to Battlefield Insight worked great for me. It forces you to be active and not just bark order from the back, gives you reasons to actually attack and be providing damage and would give rise to some interesting tactical choices: do I attack the guy next to the Barbarian so he can use an Insight Dice to gain advantage or do I think the Barbarian's go this on his next turn and I should help the Ranger get started on this guy who hasn't taken a hit? You can just keep piling damage on the same guy like with Sneak Attack or take your allies power into consideration (Overkill would basically be a waste of time here).

I chose to make Battlefield Insight a D8 because I figured it depended on TWO attack rolls instead of one like with Sneak Attack. It's slightly easier (but not THAT much) to apply, but, since you need to decide to use them before swinging, if your ally misses, they expended the dice for nothing. I pretty much used the same progression as Sneak Attacks otherwise.

Shouts : Of couse I needed to get that Lazylord flavor in here. I didn't want to just copy Commander's Strike because, to many melee characters, a Reaction is precious. So I went with the way it is now where the Warlord essentially takes one of his own Attack and grants it to an ally with a small boost. When I hit on the idea of using the Rogue as a chassis I really wanted to take the challenge of a fully at-will support class, so Shouts, and later Signals, don't use any long term ressources. I plan on adding a subclass that can do nothing but Shouts on their turn and still get to apply a couple of Insight Dice.

SHAKE IT OFF is a bit odd because I don't think 'a condition a save can end" is actual 5e parlance, but there are plenty of conditions that CAN be ended by a save beyond the original affliction. Like Aboleth mind control. Technically this works on a Grappled allie so they can get out of it on you turn.

I also decided I wanted the basic Shouts to represented the three mental stats since I already had two based off INT and CHA, but also Tactician and Inspiring Warlords. So I crated MOVE. The whole thinking process is a bit odd... 4e had a Skirmisher Warlord and Skirmisher made me thing of Ranger which makes me think of WIS so good move would be based on good WIS. But I think it works. They can all be useful even if you have a 0 in the mental stat, but they softly push you toward a playstyle depending on which stat you favored.

Also note I chose the term 'Shout' instead of the more obvious 'Command' to dissociate the concept with the 'Bossing other players around!' fear that some have whenever the Warlord is brought up. In this situation, fulff-wise, you don't order people to do a thing, you just show them an opportunity they missed and they get to choose to do it or not.

Student of Banners : Stole it from my previous Fighter subclass homebrew. I thought it made sense for someone properly trained in the art of war and I needed a ribbon ability to replace Thieves Cant. It's not really powerful but it adds some flare.

Warlord Presence : Again, I went with the softer push toward a playstyle thing, where a good INT, CHA or WIS isn't REALLY necessary, but still makes your precense more effective. I also decided NOT to attach this feature to Subclasses... mostly because I had trouble coming up with more presence. I'm also a fan of the Mix and Match style of the Warlock and I felt like you could realistically make, for exemple, a Steel Protector with any of the three Presence and they would be a drastically different character. Even White Raven could work with an Inspiring Presence. They're meant to compliment each other, but not clash with each other.

Coded Signal : This is where I wanted to give more options for what to do with Insight Dice and trading them in for effect, using your bonus action, felt like the best way to do it. You could, obviously, completely ignore them and still be an effective support that accelerate combat, but using Signals properly would probably be a lot of fun as well. I also wanted, unlike with Maneuvers, a scaling system, hence the idea that you need to sacrifice more damage for stronger effects.

Admitedly this is the section that I feel is the fiddliest of the base class AND the one that would need the most playtest. I didn't come up with any sort of formula for attributing effects. I just looked at how many dice you'd get at the level I felt was appropriate for certain effects. And for the lower level ones I looked at what king of rider a Cantrip can have and I considered the Rogues own Cunning Action.

I'm not sure how to properly convey it, but the philosophy behind a lot of effects in this class and what you can do with Shouts basically boil down to "What if I played X class instead and just did Y action instead of having my ally do it when I do Z action." In other words, when I use the STRIKE! shout to give the Paladin another attack...what if I was ALSO a Paladin and just attacked one more time?

The only advantage here, then, is that I basically have this floating shapeshiting character who can be at different points of a battlefield during different round. One round I'm a Paladin attacking Goblin #1, the next I'm actually a Rogue using Cunning Action to disengage from Goblin #2, in the other I'm next to the downed ally using my action to give him a potion... and so forth. This flexibility is the real strength of my Warlord.

Extra Attack : Extra Attack is mostly there so that, at later level, the Warlord can do both an attack (thus generating Insight) and a Shout. It replaces Uncanny Dodge, a defensive ability, from the Rogue chassis. I think it a also help keep the Warlord a decent-ish combattant on its own. The Ranger and Paladin get extra attacks and they have a bunch of spells and a Fighting style.

Veteran Poise : Another ribbon stolen from my old Fighter. Its not much but I really didn't want to leave the Warlord with just basic proficiencies outside of combat, even if they weren't meant to be a skill monkey. Continued Education and Seasoned Instructor continue this trend. Continued Education adds breadth to the Warlord's skill, if not the same high number as a class with Expertise. Seasoned Instructor in the meantime is meant to make the Warlord a good support outside of battle as well, meaning that pairing with a proper Skill Monkey makes everybody more effective.

Tempered Body : The Rogue gets WIS saves so I felt giving the Warlord CON save was good. I also figured throwing the STR save in there wouldn't do much but would paint a more interesting picture so here it is. I think a Rogue's DEX+WIS saves make for a stronger set of saves since I feel like they come up way more often. Keep DEX as a blind spot for the Warlord felt like a good way to differientiate it from, say, a Bard.

Ultimate Awareness : Since this is an 18th level ability, I'm way less worried about balance. At that level, your abilities should feel like big deals and if they don't break something they're not a big deal. I don't think there is much that add to passive scores and since you don't get Peception or Investigation proficiency with the class (unless you take it with Continued Education) it's possible that the +5 mostly helps you keep up with proficient allies. I thought it made for a good extension of the whole concept of Battlefield Insight.

Peerless Insight : Improving on previous class features is always easier to do than come up with brand new ones. This one feels a bit underwhelming but at the same time the reason I made Insight Dice stronger than Sneak Attack Dice is because you needed two attacks to activate them... this capstone ability essentially removes that caveat. The Warlord can basically let ANY of his ally attack with a D8 Sneak attack so I think it's a good DPS bonus.

I'll talk about subclasses next time.

 

[Undrave]

Still hoping for design notes

Steel Protector : I designed this subclass to be as straight forward as possible. Basically you could just totally ignore Shouts and Signals and still be effective as a support class with it, thanks to the basic support of Insight Dice and the added healing. I, obviously, based the Healer Training feature off of the Healer Feat, which is a good feat for non-magical support. I could have simply worded it as 'You gain the Healer Feat' but I don't like this sort of outside reference design. Plus, I added a 'Song of Rest' type fonction where you can boost the effectiveness of an ally's Hit Dice expenditure. I do think, however, that I should make it cost a healer's kit charge as well, just because they're too easy to come by.

I granted it Heavy Armor because I envison a Steel Protector as favoring Versatle Weapons, since you need a free hand to use Healer's Training to patch up an ally, and thus would not be using a shield. The extra armor of Heavy Armor compensate for losing that. Plus, I figue a Steel Protector would rather be up close to help allies. I also granted it a third attack as a capstone to fit in with the simple mandate so you can just hack away at enemies if you want. It's essentially the 'Fighter-like' subclass.

Note that, aside from one part of Healer's Training, this subclass doesn't have any mental stat requirement so you can gp with any of the three Precense you prefer without trouble, adding to the whole customizability idea. The subclss is simple but not without variety.

Panacea Maker is, I think, a bit off in its wording, but I didn't want the Steel Protector to just spend their time collecting a ton of ingredients and then making a ton of potions. I tried to balance it so you can't make more than 1 Potion a day until much later in level where they're not as good. The real bonus here is making additional Healer's Kit charges when you can't just buy them in a shop.

I'm considering limiting Protector's Revenge to once per short rest, as it might be too powerful as it is and make a regular Fighter seem pretty lacklustre. It does not, mind you, protect from opportunity attack so if you're in melee with someone else they could punish you for your distracting.

White Raven : Inspired by the Tactical Warlord of old I decided to have this subclass to be the one focused on Shouts and INT modifier. Maybe I could make the Bandit Leader more focused on silent signals, something useful to stealthy endeavors?

The point of this guy is to maneuver allies around and have them support each other better. Hence why I invented the additional Formation shouts that are focused on allies helping each other. I also thought it would be a cool power for a Warlord to be able to recharge allies' Reactions. It might not be useful all the time but if you got an ally with Sentinel they'll appreciate it a lot. Similarly I added the modification to STRIKE! that allows an ally to attack right away. It gives the feature more versatility (in the hands of the ally, mind you) and makes it useful in some corner cases where using a Reaction doesn't become a problem.

Analyze Enemy is basically stolen from the Battlemaster, with a different way to use it (including a rare use of the Alternate Skill Attribute variant, keying Insight off of Intelligence) and a few different element it can tell. I'm not super satisfied with it, I feel like I should have included something less battle centric into this build so the White Raven Tactician has more things to do than be good at combat. I do hope the base class helps in that respect.

Improved Presence was a no brainer for me. Being able to grant allies further away your INT bonus to initiative and even let them move is pretty great. Note that this still doesn't clash with the idea of using a different Presence, even if it doesn't rely on INT. I made sure not to call out any of the Presence on purpose.

Potent Analysis is pretty straight forward, it just makes bonus damage you grant more reliable. If you max out your INT is basically makes all your bonus D8 do their average damage or more. This would probably make the White Raven subclass a Char. Op favorite?

Ardent Soul : Or maybe the Ardent Soul would be the favorite one? I wanted to come up witha more CHA based subclass and this idea dawned on me. I like the idea of using Temp HP to fuel effects, another facet of the idea of generating your support ressource as the battle goes on. In this case, you would very much want the Inspiring Presence to throw some added Temp HP on your allies at initiative, then use your Radiating Confidence feature to grant some Temp HP to yourself.

In a way, this class is also inspired by the risk taking Bravura Warlord since taking away your protective layer of temp HP for extra damage is risky.

Do note that Burning Heart doesn't care where the Temp HP come from, simply that they exist. I could see this subclass pairing well with a Bladelock who got the Invocation for free False Life or a Battlemaster with Rally. Heck, I can see this class taking a level dip into Fighter to use the new maneuver granting Fighting Style to get Rally and then spending a feat on Martial Adept for an additional superiority dice.

Strong Personality is the feature I like the least of the Ardent. I still feel like it's a bit weaksauce. I do like the flavor of raising your maximum Charisma score though.

Improved Burning Heart felt like a no brainer, considering Fire is often resisted. I'm not sure if the Psychic damage is that good an idea and if it might be TOO good? I'm also toying with the idea of 'cold fury' and letting you pick Cold damage. I've also considered making the damage type a thing you choose after a rest instead of a dynamic versatile feature you can change on the fly. I might still do those changes if I clean up the class a do a V2.

Ardent Mantle feel like something I could develop into more features instead but I feel like it would ge repetitive.

Note that the Ardent only affects allies when within 30 feet, which is what I consider 'close range'. They're basically always one move action away from being attacked by an enemy, but they don't get any extra armor, weapons or extra attacks like the Steel Protector, further hinting at the Bravura side of it. Their own Temp HP probably spend mproving their damage for than protecting them. It's a fun balancing act to imagine.

It's also the one subclass that feels the most locked into its corresponding presence because you really want those Temp HP from Inspiring Presence. In a way it's very straight forward to build.

 

[Garthanos]

White Raven : Inspied by the Tactical Warlord of old I decided to give this subclass to be the one focused on Shouts and INT modifier. Maybe I could make the Bandit Leader more focused on silent signals, something useful to stealthy endeavors?

I am interested in your thought on that. I made up a whistles in the dark Warlord cantrip with the thinking that hey we do not produce light we make ourselves able to function in the dark better and sure enemy can very much also better tell where we are because it's rather a noisy trick. The battle signals sign language which is also not necessarily silent because sometimes it involves getting attention I made connected to the help action at range functionality. Your use of explicit shouts and signals for the meat is intriguing in relation to those ideas.

 

[Undrave]

I am interested in your thought on that. I made up a whistles in the dark Warlord cantrip with the thinking that hey we do not produce light we make ourselves able to function in the dark better and sure enemy can very much also better tell where we are because it's rather a noisy trick. The battle signals sign language which is also not necessarily silent because sometimes it involves getting attention I made connected to the help action at range functionality. Your use of explicit shouts and signals for the meat is intriguing in relation to those ideas.

Hmm... well mostly I was trying to come with ways to offer buffs that would make sense in universe for the crowd who thought 4e Martial powers were 'magic'. It felt like something you would do in a battle situation: Shout at your guys to do certain things and make signals the opponent wouldn't be able to decode. I didn't even consider fighting in the dark (because so many DnD characters get Darkvision and Light is cheap ).

I could easily replace Signals and Insight Dice with different riders you pick for your attacks when someone attacks the same creature but I thought the Bonus Action made for something that felt more active, and it allows the Warlord to affect allies and enemies not related to the creature they themselves attack.

And Shouts were to replace stuff like 4e's Commander Strike as 'Action for Action' trades, only I didn't make them scale, instead they would scale up with the action economy as you got more attacks.