D&D 5E How are people currently feeling about 5e?

[Lord Mhoram]

I have yet to see anything come down that screams "You hate me" and tries to eat my eyes.

I've liked pretty every bit I've seen, from the vague hints to the solid stuff. I am really looking forward to the 24th. The only thing I am a bit concerned with is the degree of customization (I prefer 3.x/Pathfinder levels for that) but the constant reiteration of "You can build your own themes and backgrounds" keeps me satisfied.

 

[Consonant Dude]

They can't seem to win with this one. The 4E design team didn't consult with fans to find out what kind of game was wanted, they just shoved the kind of game they wanted to design down our throats.

Meh. I don't feel anybody shoved anything down my throat. Gygax and Arneson designed the kind of game they wanted to design and it turned out mighty fine. That is how most versions of DnD were created, as well as most RPGs. What's wrong with that?

The 5E design team seems to be consulting with fans, and this shows they don't have a clear vision of what the game should be.

It's not that they are polling that makes me skeptic. It's the polls themselves. They are often poorly worded, vague and open to interpretation with weird options. Most of them feel incomplete and lack the polish that would make them remotely useful in data collection and interpretation.

I don't mind if WotC wants to take the time to write articles and poll fans (although I don't find that to be a requirement for a quality RPG). But the material itself doesn't exactly make me interested in the game.

 

[Fifth Element]

Meh. I don't feel anybody shoved anything down my throat. Gygax and Arneson designed the kind of game they wanted to design and it turned out mighty fine. That is how most versions of DnD were created, as well as most RPGs. What's wrong with that?

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, and I wasn't implying that you yourself were making this complaint. I was pointing out that for some issues, it seems that regardless of what the designers do, they will take flak for it.

 

[Sunseeker]

They can't seem to win with this one. The 4E design team didn't consult with fans to find out what kind of game was wanted, they just shoved the kind of game they wanted to design down our throats. The 5E design team seems to be consulting with fans, and this shows they don't have a clear vision of what the game should be.

I hear ya, they're either self-righteous jerks who think their poo don't stink or they're incompetent morons who couldn't add 2 and 2 if they were physics majors. Tough crowd.


To address Dude's points, I don't think the polls are an indication of the DDN team's ability to create a game. I am really good at cooking, but not so good at pulling teeth, something that seemingly simple on the outside, can actually be very complex. Just like polls. Creating a good poll is incredibly difficult, and even some of the best polling companies who have been at it for years still fail on what should be their forte.

The biggest problem with the DDN polls is simply that they're trying to squeeze too much out of too few questions. If they gave us a survey with 50-100 questions, some true/false, some positive to negative 1-5, some write-in, then I think they'd be able to produce much better polls. However, I doubt most DDN fans are going to want to fill out 50 survey questions every other day for every other article.

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IMO, DDN designers should listen to their fans. But that's it. LISTEN and test suggestions and feedback. Never should things be implemented solely because the vocal minority live up to their name. If feedback is considered, good suggestions implemented, then I believe that fans will, on the whole, be happy with DDN. The DDN team should first and foremost, work to build a good game, and if it turns out that no player suggestions work towards building a good game, then so be it.

 

[Libramarian]

It seems more like a new beginning than a return to AD&D or 3E.

It sure does. I suspect that for all the talk about respecting the story of D&D and "what would Gary do?", they're going to produce something perilously close to flipping the "this doesn't feel like D&D" switch again. They can't help it. When you know you're guaranteed to get a huge amount of exposure, the urge to use the opportunity to design a brand new game is too strong.

Just thinking about having character creation involve choosing a theme, background and class, that's going to feel pretty different from anything I'm used to.

But, whatever. I think I'm now thoroughly disillusioned of the idea that they're going back and updating AD&D, so I have an open -- but more critical -- mind. If it's fun I of course will play it, but it will have to be super fun if it's not going to be riding any nostalgia coattails.

 

[Guest 85555]

I

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IMO, DDN designers should listen to their fans. But that's it. LISTEN and test suggestions and feedback. Never should things be implemented solely because the vocal minority live up to their name. If feedback is considered, good suggestions implemented, then I believe that fans will, on the whole, be happy with DDN. The DDN team should first and foremost, work to build a good game, and if it turns out that no player suggestions work towards building a good game, then so be it.

i think in the case of 5E it isn't a matter of the fans designing the game but of the designers figuring out what D&D customers actually want. To re-use your cooking analogy, you dont let customers at a restaurant design the recipes but you do pay attention to what they like and dislike. I think their problem is they are making a single bowl of soup all their customers need to share, some want minestrone while others want chicken noodle. That is why people on all sides are so vocal and that is probably why the modular approach is the one that has any hope of working. I do not envy their position. It is a tough spot to be in.

 

[bloodtide]

i think in the case of 5E it isn't a matter of the fans designing the game but of the designers figuring out what D&D customers actually want. To re-use your cooking analogy, you dont let customers at a restaurant design the recipes but you do pay attention to what they like and dislike.

Sadly, WotC, and most companies, groups or even people rarely do this. The first big stumbling block that WotC will have is that they will never ask the fans what they like, and never hear what they say, and never understand what they say. Then you get the problem that the creators with do 'what they think' people want, not what they say they want....as the creators know what people want more then the people do. But worst of all, I think it's clear that Wotc(Hasbro?) has way too many 'Bob and Bobs' from Office space. The kind of person who knows nothing about gaming, yet they are hired to 'fix things' and 'make the company money'. They sit down and show off power point presentations, graphs and make all sorts of wild claims and processes. And the people in power always fall for it.

Just take WotC last couple 'great ideas like 'we won't put out softcover books' or 'you get just a couple hard cover books a year' or 'we won't put out many adventures(as nobody buys them right...)' or the great 'well we will dump this system that has been around for years and make a new system and every one will love and buy it as we will put D&D on the cover.'

And you can go on and on: 'Lets destroy and ruin setting X, after all lots of people like the setting and they will love us and buy more stuff if we destroy and ruin the setting' or 'we don't need to edit our work, whatever we print is perfect the first time'.

 

[Fifth Element]

But worst of all, I think it's clear that Wotc(Hasbro?) has way too many 'Bob and Bobs' from Office space. The kind of person who knows nothing about gaming, yet they are hired to 'fix things' and 'make the company money'. They sit down and show off power point presentations, graphs and make all sorts of wild claims and processes. And the people in power always fall for it.

I don't think pure conjecture can be said to be "clear".

 

[Baron Von Mandrick]

I'm excited about it, against my better judgement. I was against new additions for a long time. I didn't like the strategy behind it and thought it was disloyal to customers who invested so much time and money into one edition to all of a sudden discontinue it. I bought AD&D and other editions though I really only played AD&D until 3rd edition came out, and I was late in getting and playing that edition. I liked it because of the group I played with more than the edition.

At first I was dead set against 4th edition. I had come late to the 3rd edition and felt I was still exploring it. But I actually liked 4th edition more. I thought it was fun. I was again very late to it, and I'm still pretty new to 4th edition. I'm still uncovering and learning about it. But I really enjoy it at this point. I also like DDI, and their virtual table. It's pretty much the only way I get to play anymore. I like that I have access to the errata after having spent so much on the books and supplies.

One of the things that makes me excited about D&D Next is the possibility that I can have a smooth transition via DDI. That hasn't been guaranteed or anything, but it seems like an inference that could be made.

Another thing that has me excited is that somehow our gaming group will be able to take the best of 4e, and AD&D and somehow combine that in this newest version. They haven't said exactly how, but I'm eager to see how that would work.

I say that I'm excited knowing the danger of buying into the hype without being able to look at the application of the rules and all of that. I know that Wizards often make grand promises and sometimes has trouble delivering on them. Despite that, I'm pretty excited to get a look at what they've come up with.

It may turn out horrible, and be a huge waste of time and money, but at this point I'm excited about it. It's like my heart is saying yes, but my head is saying no.

I'll wait and see. But at least for the moment, I'm excited about it.

 

[mkill]

I just had a great session today that scratched my D&D itch perfectly. Since I have a system that allows me to run the game I want, there is only upside to 5E. Either it's even better than my current choice, so I'll switch, or it's not, then I don't.