D&D 5E How common are "petty" spell casters?

[bloodtide]

To be clear, for myself anyway, when I say 1 in 100 creatures can "do magic" doesn't mean in ANY SENSE that the other 99% think magic does not exist, etc.; just that only don't know how to do it. Most people understand that there is electricity but the vast majority don't know how it works or understands really what it is, let alone know how to produce it!

So, in my games all (or 99.9999% or so LOL) know magic exists / believe in it/ etc., but the vast majority can't do it.

Right, but your 99% of people ignore magic LIKE it does not exist. They "know" it exists, but then just live there mundane life. Magic could cook my food in minutes....but, nope I'll take a couple hours to cut down a tree into logs and then carry them back to my house and then start a fire with two stones and cook some food over the next hour.

The person does not need to "create" magic, just use it. Someone who uses electricity in a kitchen, does not have to build a generator substation with transmission towers. They just get a socket installed and plug stuff in.

The default generic setting of D&D in adventures always have tons of spellcasters as needed. When that evil group has like 20 spellcasters, well, gosh that should be like ALL the spellcasters on the whole continent , right? Oh, wait, but the city guard has like 20 spellcasters, oh and the mages guild has like well more then like five members. And on and on.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Right, but your 99% of people ignore magic LIKE it does not exist. They "know" it exists, but then just live there mundane life. Magic could cook my food in minutes....but, nope I'll take a couple hours to cut down a tree into logs and then carry them back to my house and then start a fire with two stones and cook some food over the next hour.

No, again, they do not IGNORE magic like it does not exist. They don't have the ability (knowledge, innate ability, etc.) to CAST SPELLS!

Sure, magic might cook your food in minutes, but unless you have learned to MASTER casting spells (or have that innate ability/connection to magic) you can't DO magic to cook your food, etc.

The person does not need to "create" magic, just use it. Someone who uses electricity in a kitchen, does not have to build a generator substation with transmission towers. They just get a socket installed and plug stuff in.

Wrong. People use electricity because SOMEONE else who KNOWS HOW has already MADE it.

In D&D, this would be like someone who knows drinking a potion of speed will make them fast, but they didn't MAKE the potion. If it wasn't already made, they couldn't do it.

The default generic setting of D&D in adventures always have tons of spellcasters as needed.

There is no generic setting of D&D. Each setting is unique. There are similarities, sure, but that's it.

When that evil group has like 20 spellcasters, well, gosh that should be like ALL the spellcasters on the whole continent , right? Oh, wait, but the city guard has like 20 spellcasters, oh and the mages guild has like well more then like five members. And on and on.

Oh, please! I said 1 in 100... 20 spellcasters being ALL the spellcaster on the whole continent? Give me a break.

City Guards do not routinely have spellcasters in my games, and I don't have mages' guilds, either, because only 1 in 100 creatures can do magic in any way, shape, or form... Most of those creatures have innate magic, such as fey, so LEARNING magic is difficult, assuming you have a teacher, etc. I prefer the master/apprentice model.

But, hey, you want to have lots of spellcasters? Knock yourself out. It's okay to have different styles of games. ;-)

 

[Maxperson]

I prefer the master/apprentice model.

Explains a lot, that does.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Explains a lot, that does.

View attachment 264152

(Shh!!! Don't let people know! Unless the are seeking a master.... )

 

[bloodtide]

No, again, they do not IGNORE magic like it does not exist. They don't have the ability (knowledge, innate ability, etc.) to CAST SPELLS!

Sure, magic might cook your food in minutes, but unless you have learned to MASTER casting spells (or have that innate ability/connection to magic) you can't DO magic to cook your food, etc.

But why don't they learn magic? That is the question.

Wrong. People use electricity because SOMEONE else who KNOWS HOW has already MADE it.

In D&D, this would be like someone who knows drinking a potion of speed will make them fast, but they didn't MAKE the potion. If it wasn't already made, they couldn't do it.

So no spellcaster can write a book "Spelling made Easy" or such?

There is no generic setting of D&D. Each setting is unique. There are similarities, sure, but that's it.

The rulebooks have the generic setting.

 

[DND_Reborn]

But why don't they learn magic? That is the question.

Not really. The same reasons people don't learn things in the real world: inability, no access, lack of dedication, other concerns, tried and failed, etc.

So no spellcaster can write a book "Spelling made Easy" or such?

No, because it is NOT easy in my games.

1st-level PCs have done what many fail to do, for whatever reason (as those listed above, for instance).

The rulebooks have the generic setting.

They have options. There is no generic setting.

 

[Maxperson]

But why don't they learn magic? That is the question.

From who? If spellcasters are rare, there's nobody around to teach them. Plus, if you were one of those rare spellcasters, chances are excellent that you aren't stupid enough to just go around teaching new rivals how to harness phenomenal cosmic power. You're going to keep it for yourself and maaaaybe at some point take an apprentice so that the art isn't completely lost.

So no spellcaster can write a book "Spelling made Easy" or such?

None are dumb enough. Even the good ones aren't going to make magic widespread. Even if they trust the ones they are teaching, they can't trust that the ones they are teaching won't go out and teach Sidious, Vader and Maul how to do things.

The rulebooks have the generic setting.

And as written in the DMG that default setting has spellcasters as rare.

 

[DND_Reborn]

how to harness phenomenal cosmic power

Unless you also tell them about the itty-biddy living space.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's where I am as well. To me it's the only way to account for the insane variety of magic traditions in 5e.

I agree. I also think that the simple fact that you can be a caster with roughly 1/3 the potential magical power as a wizard, or just learn to cast a few spells, or just learn how to successfully cast rituals, means that spellcasting isn't more rare than, say, a weaponsmith or silversmith. Rarer than a cobbler, in many worlds, but not rarer than the less common tradecrafts.

I used to think this was viable, but now with racial magic...

A lot of people are saying "oh 1% that's pretty rare" but that means that a small hamlet of 80 people is more likely than not to have a someone that can cast some magic.

Yep. Judging from another magic thread ongoing right now, I think part of the problem is that people just assume that everyone else means the same thing when they say "rare". I mean, I don't know what percentage of the populace are smiths, but I know that they're common enough that you can go get smithwork done if you really need it and have something to trade or a good reputation for paying your debts. You might need to travel to a nearby town, and if you've bad luck you might have to go to town, but you can go get an itinerary, spend a day or two traveling, and get the work done. And this sort of travel isn't uncommon in most of Medieval Europe. Few people did it repeatedly, and fewer still traveled outside their linguistic/cultural region, but the point is that you can go find a smith if your village doesn't have one and the nearest farrier isn't confident in doing the work you need done.

"Relatively rare" as described in the DMG seems, to me, to describe roughly the same level of rarity as the less common tradecrafts, at the rarest.

I mean, you could call blacksmiths relatively rare in 900CE Wales, but they aren't so rare they don't have an impact on the world, and there are many more farriers, tinkers with a bit of basic smithing knowledge, and failed apprentices who can do in a pinch.

Plus, if you were one of those rare spellcasters, chances are excellent that you aren't stupid enough to just go around teaching new rivals how to harness phenomenal cosmic power. You're going to keep it for yourself and maaaaybe at some point take an apprentice so that the art isn't completely lost.

If you don't want to start a discussion with me after I bailed on the last one, I get it, but I am very curious about this. It seems much more likely to me that wizards in a rare-caster world would seek apprentices, not hoard their knowledge. Or rather, that there would be wizards doing both extremes and all points in between. I wonder why you think that it's likely that most would be at one end of the spectrum?

 

[Maxperson]

If you don't want to start a discussion with me after I bailed on the last one, I get it, but I am very curious about this. It seems much more likely to me that wizards in a rare-caster world would seek apprentices, not hoard their knowledge. Or rather, that there would be wizards doing both extremes and all points in between. I wonder why you think that it's likely that most would be at one end of the spectrum?

People tend to be greedy and mistrustful when it comes to power. Look at the wealthy. They rarely trust people who aren't already wealthy, because very often they are only being friendly due to their wealth. Power is the same way. Is that apprentice trustworthy to have the power or is he faking it so that he can get it and abuse it, or maybe steal more, or worse.

I think those with the knowledge would find an apprentice when they were in their old age and the vast majority of life is behind them. At that point it would be more important to see the knowledge and their life's work not go to waste and they would seek out someone capable and who they felt was trustworthy.