How do Psions compare to arcane casters?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

An analysis on the rules forum shows that 2 or 3 encounters is normally sufficient to begin to take a deep bite into the psion's power point pool.

I would love to see this analysis (or its repeat), because that has not been the case IME. If a psion uses save-or-suffer in preference to direct-damage, they can lost five or six encounters pretty easily.

 

[Cadfan]

"Even as a NPC I don't know that any rational forward thinking character would cripple themselves for another chance encounter perfore you could recover."

I am not sure this applies to a rational, forward thinking character that has just realized that he's overmatched and has a low chance of even surviving to see a second encounter.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

"Even as a NPC I don't know that any rational forward thinking character would cripple themselves for another chance encounter perfore you could recover."

I am not sure this applies to a rational, forward thinking character that has just realized that he's overmatched and has a low chance of even surviving to see a second encounter.

Wouldn't an overmatched psion flee?

 

[shilsen]

You are correct there but I think that is Metagaming on the DMs part. Even as a NPC I don't know that any rational forward thinking character would cripple themselves for another chance encounter perfore you could recover. Certainly that character may be placed there with the intention of you as a DM to have him die in the end. But to play the character as if he had the intention of dying.... *shrug*

I didn't suggest that the character be played as if he intended to die. But if the NPC is in a situation where it's victory or death, a psion can pull out all the stops better than a sorcerer or wizard can, IMO, because of the ability to use his highest lvl powers until he runs out of pp, while a sorcerer or wizard is handicapped by slots. A 12th lvl wizard with a 22 Int has two 6th lvl spell slots, or 3 if he's specialized. A 12th lvl sorcerer with 22 Cha has 4. So, however much they might want to, they can never use a 6th lvl spell more than 4 times in a day or encounter. A 12th lvl psion with 22 Int, on the other hand, can use a 6th lvl power 14 times (162 pp, with most 6th lvl powers costing 11 pts). I think that makes a pretty significant difference.

 

[arscott]

I'm a bit skeptical of the contention that the psion is more effective in a one encounter/day basis than the wizard is:

In practice, most combat encounters rarely last more than five or six rounds. Five or six rounds per encounter means that the Psion can spend his full manifester level in powerpoints each round and not run out.

But A self-respecting specialist wizard (and psions are essentially specialists), is going to have at least five or six spells of the two highest levels he can cast. And because spell scaling is free for many wizard spells, he can use his 2nd highest level spell slots for direct damage spells and other spells that scale well. That means that the wizard is essentially doing just as well as the psion for the duration of the combat.

If your running 2 combats before resting, then the psion is going to come out ahead somewhat, but a one-combat psion is no more effective than a one-combat wizard.

 

[Ravellion]

You are right. Chalk that up to fuzzy thinking at the moment. Now I feel like one of my friends who thinks the ave on a d10 is 5 no matter how you explain it.

Ask him what the average between 1 and 3 is. Then ask him what the average between 1 and 4 is. Then slowly move up to 10.

Rav

 

[Felon]

The fact that many traditional defense and evasion abilities (teleport, invisibility) and other generally useful abilities (buffs a la animal affinity) are sorted into the discipline lists for psions mean that you have fewer choices when trying to design a psion adversary who will survive the fight. It's trivial for wizards.

But it's pure anguish for sorcerers, at which point we're back to other folks' conclusion that psions get the best of both worlds; spontaneous dispensation of effects with a relatively broad selection of effects available.

Do psionics have the equivalent of components? Can they always manifest, even when grappled or bound? I actually don't mind psions making the best nukers--somebody's gotta be the best--but I was wondering if arcane magic has any actual edge over psionics. The psion's requirement of selecting a discipline sounds like wizard specialization in that it cuts down choices while still leaving a pretty wide field open.

 

[Spatula]

Do psionics have the equivalent of components?

Kinda-sorta but not in the sense that you mean.

Can they always manifest, even when grappled or bound?

Yes. There's basically no way to stop a psion from manifesting short of killing them or knocking them unconscious (paralyzation won't do it since you can usually take purely mental actions while paralyzed).

 

[Vurt]

There's basically no way to stop a psion from manifesting short of killing them or knocking them unconscious (paralyzation won't do it since you can usually take purely mental actions while paralyzed).

Off the top of my head, the dazed and stunned conditions prevent psions from manifesting. Go monks and cantrips!

Edit: Blinding a psion keeps them from targetting you, as does frightening them and/or panicking them, making them nauseated, petrifying them (duh), or putting them to sleep. Also, a psion can't manifest while cowering, or if they've been fascinated.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[JustaPlayer]

Ask him what the average between 1 and 3 is. Then ask him what the average between 1 and 4 is. Then slowly move up to 10.

Rav

Stuff like that doesn't work. He'll say 1.5 between 1 and 3.

I even placed 10 object on a table and told him to circle the one in the middle. He knew it was between 5 and 6 but when I tried to get him to the dice he kept saying 5. He doesn't grasp that counting starts at 1 and not 0.