log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E How do you determine your initial Attributes?

How do you determine your initial Attributes?

  • Rolled

    Votes: 46 39.7%
  • Standard Array

    Votes: 26 22.4%
  • Point Buy

    Votes: 44 37.9%

  • Total voters
    116

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
And yet the mental skills outnumber the physical skills 14 to 4 when we consider ability checks with proficiency.
This is a flaw in the system. Athletics encompasses too much. It really should be split into about 4 skills. And if we applied the same standard to intelligence skills, there would only be two skills there, since arcana, religion, history and nature are all the skill Knowledge.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
But I digress. If 10 is considered average, and if players play using the 27 point by or more so, the Std Array, every single char is going to be "below average" in some manner, if they max min their chars. That is hardly "ableist".
That's false. You can in fact make a PC that is not below average anywhere. 12 points will give you straight 10's, and then you have 15 more points to raise stats from there. 15, 15, 11, 10, 10, 10 is 27 points, as is the example 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12 which is explicitly above average. So 12 by RAW is not high average. It's above average. Similarly 9 is below average. Average in 5e is 10-11.
And no, I do not play chars with low Int. You have no reason to believe me, but I have separate degrees in Economics and Physics. I could not RP a low Int char to save my life, the same way I can't RP a high CHA char. Like anyone else, I can play either mechanically, which was the first and only intent of the rules. But to ACT (which is the modern definition of Role-Playing) inside a D&D game...nope.
I have no reason not to believe you, but your degrees are irrelevant to whether or not you can roleplay a low intelligence. And you're still trying to conflate low scores with high scores. They aren't the same. You can easily roleplay a score lower than your own, but will find it impossible to roleplay a score higher than your own.

And the modern definition of roleplay is simply, playing a role. That's it. Acting is only one method of playing a role.

Edit: Minor math correction.
 
Last edited:

BookTenTiger

He / Him
I have no reason not to believe you, but your degrees are irrelevant to whether or not you can roleplay a low intelligence. And your still trying to conflate low scores with high scores. They aren't the same. You can easily roleplay a score lower than your own, but will find it impossible to roleplay a score higher than your own.

And the modern definition of roleplay is simply, playing a role. That's it. Acting is only one method of playing a role.
Wait, we have scores in real life???
 


That's false. You can in fact make a PC that is not below average anywhere. 10 points will give you straight 10's, and then you have 17 more points to raise stats from there. 15, 15, 11, 10, 10, 10 is 27 points, as is the example 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12 which is explicitly above average. So 12 by RAW is not high average. It's above average. Similarly 9 is below average. Average in 5e is 10-11.

I have no reason not to believe you, but your degrees are irrelevant to whether or not you can roleplay a low intelligence. And your still trying to conflate low scores with high scores. They aren't the same. You can easily roleplay a score lower than your own, but will find it impossible to roleplay a score higher than your own.

And the modern definition of roleplay is simply, playing a role. That's it. Acting is only one method of playing a role.
You left out the words from my post where I said "if they max min their chars.". Std Array has a 8 in it. I have no idea how many Dex chars make Str = 8, or how many Paladin's make Int or Dex = 8. But it is a lot. I daresay, you look at 100 char sheets from players that built using Std Array or 27 point buy, at level 1 there is AT LEAST one 8 on 50 of those sheets.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
You left out the words from my post where I said "if they max min their chars.". Std Array has a 8 in it. I have no idea how many Dex chars make Str = 8, or how many Paladin's make Int or Dex = 8. But it is a lot. I daresay, you look at 100 char sheets from players that built using Std Array or 27 point buy, at level 1 there is AT LEAST one 8 on 50 of those sheets.
That doesn't equate to min-maxing. A whole lot of people like roleplaying characters with physical or mental flaws(low stats). The only way to do that with point buy is not to raise everything to 10+.
 


That doesn't equate to min-maxing. A whole lot of people like roleplaying characters with physical or mental flaws(low stats). The only way to do that with point buy is not to raise everything to 10+.
OK, now I am really confused.
Are you arguing that most chars that are built with the 27 point buy and std array DO have sub-average scores, and this is not "ableist?
Because I agree with that.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
OK, now I am really confused.
Are you arguing that most chars that are built with the 27 point buy and std array DO have sub-average scores, and this is not "ableist?
Because I agree with that.
I'm not arguing how many do or don't have them. There's no way for you or I to have any real idea about that. I'm simply saying that there are RP reasons for having a stat of 8. It doesn't equate to min-maxing. And nothing we do in D&D is abelist or not. Nobody is being discriminated against as a result of the RP.
 

I'm not arguing how many do or don't have them. There's no way for you or I to have any real idea about that. I'm simply saying that there are RP reasons for having a stat of 8. It doesn't equate to min-maxing. And nothing we do in D&D is abelist or not. Nobody is being discriminated against as a result of the RP.
Then we are on the same page, essentially. Other than you calling it for RP reasons, and I am calling it min-maxing. And yes, when I create a char, I do have an 8, but never because of RP reasons. I don't play an RP game, or minimize that as much as I can.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I prefer my players to roll their stats, because I want a large variety of different ability scores among the players. And as a player, I prefer rolling my stats also, for the same reason. Hey, a little bit of chaos is fun!

If my DM insists we use a standard array, I'll use it. But I'll mock it and/or complain about it the whole time.

I've never had a DM insist on point-buy...which is a relief, considering how well I handle getting stuck with a standard array. (From what I can tell, point-buy is just four different 'standard arrays' anyway.)
 

I prefer my players to roll their stats, because I want a large variety of different ability scores among the players. And as a player, I prefer rolling my stats also, for the same reason. Hey, a little bit of chaos is fun!

If my DM insists we use a standard array, I'll use it. But I'll mock it and/or complain about it the whole time.

I've never had a DM insist on point-buy...which is a relief, considering how well I handle getting stuck with a standard array. (From what I can tell, point-buy is just four different 'standard arrays' anyway.)
I mean if you have the normal point buy then you have the standard array too, as it is buyable with the points.

In my campaign rolling was not allowed. And no rolling for HP either. I don't want randomly unbalanced characters.
 

jgsugden

Legend
2d6+4 rolled 6 times.

If you take them 'in order' you get a minor perk (ally, minor magic item, weak feat, etc...) If you reorder them you don't. If you don't like the result, you can use point buy. There is a caveat for the 'in order' - if your Con is below 10, you can switch your second highest roll for your con score.

You get a range of 6 to 16, with 1 in 6 characters getting the magic 16 (or 6).
 

2d6+4 rolled 6 times.

If you take them 'in order' you get a minor perk (ally, minor magic item, weak feat, etc...) If you reorder them you don't. If you don't like the result, you can use point buy. There is a caveat for the 'in order' - if your Con is below 10, you can switch your second highest roll for your con score.

You get a range of 6 to 16, with 1 in 6 characters getting the magic 16 (or 6).
That is a pretty tough set of rolling, but because the players have a floor of Point Buy, really a no risk thing.
 

ad_hoc

(he/they)
Well, first off, a a 10 is considered "average" in the game. I am not going to dive deeply into RL mental capacities. I can't imagine how many people will be triggered by the medical term of "Idiot Savant". But if you actually research that medical condition, you will see it affects roughly 1 in a million people in a highly demonstrable fashion. And it affects men to women in a 6:1 ratio. I am guessing that means in a typical D&D continent maybe a dozen PC's and NPC's would exist at any time with that condition.

But I digress. If 10 is considered average, and if players play using the 27 point by or more so, the Std Array, every single char is going to be "below average" in some manner, if they max min their chars. That is hardly "ableist".

And no, I do not play chars with low Int. You have no reason to believe me, but I have separate degrees in Economics and Physics. I could not RP a low Int char to save my life, the same way I can't RP a high CHA char. Like anyone else, I can play either mechanically, which was the first and only intent of the rules. But to ACT (which is the modern definition of Role-Playing) inside a D&D game...nope.
Yikes.
 

cbwjm

Hero
Not sure it's all that hard to play 8 Intelligence. A character I want to play is Krunk the half-orc barbarian with an 8 int. He's not mind bogglingly stupid, he's just straight forward and doesn't go in for book learning or tactical planning since he could just hit his enemies with his axe. One day I hope to play him, so many character concepts floating around in my head that I often end up creating something new.

When I run games, I also don't penalise players running low intelligence characters by stopping them solving puzzles or coming up with plans, it's just a game and I don't think I need to enforce things like that. For puzzles especially, I see those more as a challenge for the players rather than a challenge for the character, though an intelligence check might get me to drop a clue on how to solve it (ideally clues will also be scattered around the dungeon for the players to find as well, especially if passing the puzzle is required to progress). In these cases, a lucky roll might net the 8 int character a clue, but more likely those who focus on Intelligence are going to get the clues.
 


Stormonu

Legend
I prefer rolling, but I players the choice of the roll (4d6-L, arrange to taste) or standard array (15,14,13,12,11,8), mostly because I had one player who had abysmal luck on the rolling (to the point he refused to roll his own and would have someone else at the table roll his stats). As an aside, a little while back I played with a human monk whose highest rolled stat was 11, and did surprising well (outperforming most of the rest of the party) up through 6th level - though, eventually misfortune got him (when rolling a 1 for a death save while at 0 hp).

I've noticed a lot of the non-D&D RPGs I have bought of late tend to use point buy systems; can't think of one in the last 10-15 years that wasn't a D20 system that had you roll stats.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
In 5e, stats measure capability, not capacity. (Otherwise, how could you improve them?) An 8 Int can simply mean you're a little less well-read than others, and as such aren't as aware of formal logic (puzzles, Investigation checks) and lack the theoretical grounding for wizardly magic.

The act of roleplaying doesn't have to be in "playing" your stats, it also comes in narrating the results of the mechanics in the context of your character.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
In 5e, stats measure capability, not capacity.

It could be argued that they measure both, actually, exactly like in real life, there is an innate part with its limitations and an acquired part. Also, PCs can increase their stats with levels, but not everyone can increase their levels, so it's not clear about the stats either.

The act of roleplaying doesn't have to be in "playing" your stats, it also comes in narrating the results of the mechanics in the context of your character.

And I think it can be both. Also, as numerous people have noted, there is the part in character, but also the discussions between the players, in which the player should not feel limited since it's a game.
 

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top