As a pejorative, it tends to have a flavor of "DM's pet PC." So they're way more powerful, can do no wrong, have complete plot immunity, never die, and generally overshadow the PCs.
Can Do No Wrong
Have Complete Plot Immunity
Never Die
Generally Overshadow (fellow) PCs.
Those are all problems if any PC has these traits, no?
I do have a clearer idea of what the criteria is. Especially in the page of replies since. Thanks Kinak.
If your players want more, you're obviously not doing it wrong. Just trying to help with definitions.
Thanks? I'm going to take that as a good thing. I'm also going to keep this in my pocket for later in this post.
In general, a DM PC has the following features that aren't generally found in NPCs that journey with the party:
a) The DM PC is as broadly competent as the PCs. Generally in D&D this means that the DMPC will be the at least as high of level as the PCs and be built with at least as high of a stat array.
Done it. Overdone it. Underdone it. I've had a lot of traveling NPCs. Very rarely do I use NPC classes or stats to build them.
b) The DM PC is one that the DM empathizes with and identifies the way he would a PC. This is necessary to distinguish the DMPC from a high level character that accompanies the PC's solely or largely to become a foil, rival, or enemy at a later point.
Done it. But seems like an odd distinction once again, as I try to embody all NPCs. I think what probably helps here is that I generally don't give a voice to NPCs/DMPCs unless the PCs interact with them.
I equate this to NPCs in video games, they might travel around, be as powerful as the party/player(s), but they don't get to talk unless there is a time that the party/players are talking to them. Does that make sense? Does that work for you, even though it violates A and B? Does it still qualify as a DMPC?
You should resist this demand in most cases.
Why? I'm playing my pocketed "not doing it wrong" from Kinak. As long as everyone is happy, does it matter how powerful the NPC is?
a) NPC guides and hirelings should be incapable of providing significant direct help in solving the big problems the PC's face. It's ok to have NPCs there to take care of the horses while you are in the dungeon, manage the party finances in town, tote and guard the luggage and so forth. They can be quite valuable assets. The should just be clearly sidekicks.
b) High level mentor/quest giver NPCs should not be able and willing to accompany the PC's except in missions of extremely short duration and only when you plan it. Make sure that high level NPCs are few in number and their duties large. If they have extreme weaknesses of some sort, that's good too - my favorite is old age.
What you want to avoid at all times is NPCs that steal spotlight from the PCs.
Again I've got to ask why they can't travel and work with the PCs as an equal. Don't steal the spotlight? Sure. But I don't get why the NPC should be forced to stay outside, especially since my players repeatedly won't let them - insisting NPCs come with into the dungeon.
There is no official definition. A DMPC is just a type of NPC (as the DM is not a player)*. An NPC that travels with the party can be considered a DMPC (generally a negative term) but there's no hard-core definition, anymore than there's a hard-core definition for a Mary Sue. An NPC is more likely to be considered a DMPC if they play a lead role instead of fading into the background.
I am starting to get that sense. Both that there is no strict definition. And that they should not be the lead role.
There's too many definitions (and you're not giving enough info, except about the kobold) to say whether those are DMPCs or not, but "excellent" NPCs that accompany PCs sometimes aggravate players. It's probably not a good idea to have NPCs travel with the PCs that are higher-level than them though, especially if it's obvious.
Excellent is how well he was dueling. He sucked at a lot of other things as it turned out, but it was not intended to be when he was built just how things shook out.
If you want to know whether the NPCs were equal to, above or below level I can do that; but I do not have the wish or compulsion to give you lengthy descriptions for those NPCs listed.
I've had NPCs with the group that have been; excellent duelists, supreme magicksters, excellent rage-barbarians, little crystal globes of light that heal people, regenerative kobold that can't die, not to mention others that are slipping my memory at the moment. Some have been over level, some same level, some below level.
So, duelist = equal level, magicksters = at least one of each, I am sure, rage-barbarians = two over, one under, crystal ball = literally an item so no basis, kobold = waay below. Others I had forgotten about; halfling cleric = below, fighter (mentor) = roughly twice above, an entire other group of adventurers which the PCs effectively joined = mostly above with a couple same or below, various NPCs of varying classes = various (above, below, between), and a centaur with no class levels = below; along with others (as I already said) of equal, above, and below party level.
There is very little rhyme and reason that I can see outside the party genuinely enjoying having that character around and insisting that the NPC journey with them. Sometimes it is briefly, sometimes it is lengthy, sometimes the party joines them (other adventurers), and sometimes they just tag along (liket he centaur - a PCs wife). I try to never force the NPC to be essential to the game or party.
Whether he's a DMPC or not depends on whether he's taking a lead role. In this case, he's not, unless he's telling PCs to throw him down hallways.
You start to lose me a little here. Even if he were telling them to throw him, he is not taking a leading roll. He is playing an active roll, one the party cannot do, but not a leading roll.
This is a kind of NPC to avoid. Not that it's your fault, as you didn't seem to expect PCs to use him as an "easy mode" trap detector.
I REALLY did not expect that, true.
That's not even an NPC. That's a magic item with legs. I can't imagine any NPC putting up with that behavior, and honestly, it's also sadistic and evil by the sound of it.
I said that they tried to throw him down a hall, or have him walk. They were unsuccessful the second time they tried suggesting this. Even though he could regenerate did not mean he was an idiot - he did not like to be used, he was still a kobold after all.
Again, twisted, sadistic, and evil. This is an NPC whose characterization has been reduced to being a useful item, not a thinking and feeling being with emotions as real and deep as the players.
Who said the PCs were not sadistic, twisted, and evil. My PCs have always had the option to be whatever alignment they wanted - as long as they can work with the party I do not care their alignment.
Lan-"and sometimes the party won't let an NPC leave even if it wants to"-efan
This is the issue I frequently have. My idea would be to have NPCs as a resource for the party. Their idea is to get cheap and easy labour in fights. We reach a middleground of (if I understand correctly) DMPCs.
