How do you feel about learning new rule systems?

[Eyes of Nine]

My answer to the OP is really "I don't care much about the system": I'm interested or not in a game based on what the game is about, who wrote it, what setting it's in, what kind of character you play, etc... to some degree, I might care about the system in terms of "what kind of system is it". Is it a modified 5e game? Is it inspired my MERP or by old-school WFRP? Is it a hack of some other system?

But really I tend to think about it more in similar terms as board games. Every board game has different rules: picking up a new board game means you'll have to learn it! So am I going to only pick Carcassone extensions ("it's Carcassone, but with space settlements on asteroids!") the same way I might only play 5e games? Or am I open to any board game except a few that have mechanics I don't like (say, I don't want to play deck-building games) ?

There's a couple decent reasons to not want or be able to play games using a new rule system. "Not wanting to learn something new" is not one of those in my opinion.

I need to sit and think for a bit about how board games =/= role-playing games; I mean beyond the fiddly bits and the board itself. But I strongly believe they are different, and it's not equivalent in terms of reading the rules.

Maybe the first thing on this I'll say before is that with RPGs, at least ones that are GM-ful, is that the GM is expected to know most/all the rules; while the players are not actually expected to know them at all to start. Board games are usually - let's open the game together and learn the rules as we go.

 

[lordabdul]

I think we may end up creating our own. We've seen many different systems (I've been gaming for over 30 years) and haven't really found one that fits the way we want things to work.

Depending on your resources, extra rules on an existing system or a modified OGL ruleset might be vastly less work than making a new system from scratch. But if you have the time and energy and playtesting resources, yeah, go crazy. What kind of mechanics in particular would this new system feature that others don't?

 

[lordabdul]

Maybe the first thing on this I'll say before is that with RPGs, at least ones that are GM-ful, is that the GM is expected to know most/all the rules; while the players are not actually expected to know them at all to start. Board games are usually - let's open the game together and learn the rules as we go.

RPGs and board games are totally different yeah -- I was just saying that my approach for deciding if I want to pick this new game I heard about are very similar.

In my experience, the vast majority of board games we play in my social circles are invariably brought by someone who has already played it before, and therefore knows the rules and is going to explain it to the rest of the table. It's true however that you could open the game and discover the rules together, which is something we can do with board games and not RPGs because board game rules fit in a 5 pages booklet that takes minutes to parse, whereas a new RPG game is a 256 pages book that takes hours to assimilate. In that regard, yes, someone will have to spend these hours reading the book. But the overall scale is also different: the 5 minutes spent learning the board game rules are invested so you can play that game for 30 minutes. The couple hours you spend reading the RPG book are potentially for several sessions of play. That's why Quickstart rules and starter sets are super useful: you get one or two sessions of play for an investment of, say, 30 minutes maybe? (most Quickstarts are under 20 pages for the rules section)... and also, they're often free.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

RPGs and board games are totally different yeah -- I was just saying that my approach for deciding if I want to pick this new game I heard about are very similar.

Derp sorry, missed that.

 

[lordabdul]

Derp sorry, missed that.

No worries, I wasn't that clear in my original message. And it's a pretty interesting topic to me anyway -- I'm still developing my opinions on this, so discussing it help me out too.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I was trying to think about this more since I first posted, and I think part of it is that I will always find the limits of the system, and where it's difficult to make exactly the character I want, even though I don't have concepts that are super powerful or whatever. There is always some competency that is hard to have alongside whatever other competency is needed.

But in 5e DnD, I know the system well enough to just...make the thing custom for that character, and go from there.

 

[Campbell]

You all play some really simple board games if you can learn the rules in 5 minutes and they only take 30 minutes to play.

 

[Kodiak3D]

isn't fitting how others like to play more important than fitting how you like to work if sales is the goal?

In my opinion, sales being the primary goal is part of the problem with a lot of games. It stifles the creativity. While yes, sales would be wonderful, we're not fooling ourselves into thinking we're going to create the next D&D or Pathfinder and quit our day jobs. We're more interested in creating a good game that fits into the same niche that we fall into. Creating a new system isn't about making everyone happy. That's impossible, especially in RPG's. It's not about making people play the way we want, it's about finding out if people are interested in the way we want to play. If they are, and they want to help support our idea financially, all the better.

My friend and I (and our entire gaming group) are in our 40's and have played together for 25 years. We've played tons of different game systems in that time and have watched how things have changed over the years. Much like anyone else we really like some of the changes, and some not so much.

For example: back in the day (as I make myself sound ancient), you would find products like the 2nd edition AD&D splatbooks for the different regions of the Forgotten Realms. While yes, there was always some game material in them, they were more intended to fill out the world. It carried over into 3rd edition before it changed into a bigger focus on stats rather than worldbuilding. If I recall correctly, this was when Monte Cook left WotC and made his famous post about "chewy vs. crunchy." (I'd provide a link, but I can't find it. If anyone knows what I'm talking about and can share, please do.)

We're interested in creating a game that fits our vision of gaming and, hopefully, find others that enjoy it. If not, everyone is certainly welcome to continue playing whatever game they enjoy. That's what gaming is about, enjoyment.

 

[Mistwell]

In my opinion, sales being the primary goal is part of the problem with a lot of games. It stifles the creativity. While yes, sales would be wonderful, we're not fooling ourselves into thinking we're going to create the next D&D or Pathfinder and quit our day jobs. We're more interested in creating a good game that fits into the same niche that we fall into. Creating a new system isn't about making everyone happy. That's impossible, especially in RPG's. It's not about making people play the way we want, it's about finding out if people are interested in the way we want to play. If they are, and they want to help support our idea financially, all the better.

My friend and I (and our entire gaming group) are in our 40's and have played together for 25 years. We've played tons of different game systems in that time and have watched how things have changed over the years. Much like anyone else we really like some of the changes, and some not so much.

For example: back in the day (as I make myself sound ancient), you would find products like the 2nd edition AD&D splatbooks for the different regions of the Forgotten Realms. While yes, there was always some game material in them, they were more intended to fill out the world. It carried over into 3rd edition before it changed into a bigger focus on stats rather than worldbuilding. If I recall correctly, this was when Monte Cook left WotC and made his famous post about "chewy vs. crunchy." (I'd provide a link, but I can't find it. If anyone knows what I'm talking about and can share, please do.)

We're interested in creating a game that fits our vision of gaming and, hopefully, find others that enjoy it. If not, everyone is certainly welcome to continue playing whatever game they enjoy. That's what gaming is about, enjoyment.

Given you already concluded this before your first post...why did you post this thread?

 

[Kodiak3D]

Given you already concluded this before your first post...why did you post this thread?

I hadn't decided before I posted the thread. That was why I posted it, to see if resistance to a new system was too high to be worth putting the effort into creating a new one. After seeing the responses, I decided it was worth it.