How do you feel about learning new rule systems?

[hawkeyefan]

@Jd Smith1 They're probably not up your alley--they're not really up mine, either--but Blades in the Dark and Apocalypse World (and their Forged in the Dark and Powered by the Apocalypse spawn, respectively) do not particularly feel like older TRPGs. For that matter, neither does Icons, IIRC, but I only ever played it one time and didn't much care for it. There's not a lot of material for it, but Stolze's One Roll Engine looks in many ways like a d10 pool but works much differently. My point is intended gently and is merely that there are both TRPG rulesets that are actually different and others that are more different than they might seem at first glance; there's nothing to say that you should try any of them.

I've only ever played Godlike with that system, and I think that's the only game that ever used it? I could certainly be wrong, though. It's very interesting, but I found it to be kind of cumbersome for a system that was designed to cut out a lot of things by only having on roll used to determine so much.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Some of these games may have some of those elements you've mentioned, but I don't think they focus on them to the extent that D&D and other longstanding games do. I mean, I don't know if I'd say that any game that has a dice pool in some way is retreading what's come before....but maybe that's just me.

Here's a few I can think of off the top of my head.

• Apocalypse World (and the Powered by the Apocalypse ruleset, for which there are a ton of games)
• Modiphius's 2d20 system (used for several settings)
• Dogs in the Vineyard
• Blades in the Dark (and the Forged in the Dark system, for which there are a few official games and several hacks)
• Free League's Mutant Year Zero and Tales From the Loop
• Fiasco
• Microscope and other fiction creation games
• Free League's Alien RPG
• The Gumshoe system- notably Trail of Cthulhu and Swords of the Serpentine
• Misspent Youth (inspired by the recent article about the author stepping away from the industry)

I mean, that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that I've recently played or read through. None of them, in my opinion, play like D&D. Some have elements that come from D&D and other similar games, but the play experience is still very different. Collectively, these games offer a pretty wide variety of play styles and play expectations.

This list is by no means exhaustive. My knowledge of the industry and the games that are out there is pretty minimal. Others can offer many more than these.

Of your list, MYZ is perhaps the only system which actually breaks a small amount of new ground. The rest are standard fare, instantly familiar to any veteran gamer.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I've read both Blades and Apoc World. Nothing new in either, just a few half-hearted tweaks to concepts long since hammered out.

There's a few new dynamic settings (not many, but some), but neither of those are included. But rules sets haven't pushed the envelope in years. I can't think of more than four rules systems which really broke free of the mold since the 90s. Five if you count Swedish systems.

I strongly disagree about Blades and Apocalypse world consisting of "half-hearted tweaks".

But rather than focus on that, what are the four or five rules systems you think may have broken free of the mold? You mention Mutant Year Zero....what are the others?

Of your list, MYZ is perhaps the only system which actually breaks a small amount of new ground. The rest are standard fare, instantly familiar to any veteran gamer.

And yet amazingly, many veteran gamers seem to struggle to even understand some of the elements of these games and how those elements are implemented, to have a proper discussion about them.

 

[prabe]

I've only ever played Godlike with that system, and I think that's the only game that ever used it? I could certainly be wrong, though. It's very interesting, but I found it to be kind of cumbersome for a system that was designed to cut out a lot of things by only having on roll used to determine so much.

Yup. Godlike. In principle, it's pretty elegant--as it says on the tin, you roll once. In practice, there is other awkwardness that creeps in.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Yup. Godlike. In principle, it's pretty elegant--as it says on the tin, you roll once. In practice, there is other awkwardness that creeps in.

Yeah.....instead of making 5 rolls over the course of 2 minutes each, you can make 1 roll that takes 10 minutes to apply!

 

[prabe]

Yeah.....instead of making 5 rolls over the course of 2 minutes each, you can make 1 roll that takes 10 minutes to apply!

I don't remember it being as bad as that, but I agree that it at least doesn't play as quickly or easily as "One Roll Engine" would seem to imply.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I strongly disagree about Blades and Apocalypse world consisting of "half-hearted tweaks".

But rather than focus on that, what are the four or five rules systems you think may have broken free of the mold? You mention Mutant Year Zero....what are the others? {/quote]

I wasn't counting MYZ.

(Swords Path:Glory I'm mentioning, but I do not believe it every was a complete system. I sold my copy years ago, and so and deprived of its wonder)

Millenium's End
Phoenix Command
Riddle of Steel (and its continuations)
Aces & Eights

And yet amazingly, many veteran gamers seem to struggle to even understand some of the elements of these games and how those elements are implemented, to have a proper discussion about them.

The hobby attracts all kinds.

 

[GMMichael]

I haven't seen a 'new' system in years, just endless minor variations on the systems of the 80s.

If this is the case, the OP's dilemma just became MUCH more simple. But it's similar to this argument: cars continue to use steering wheels, brake and gas pedals, so there haven't really been any new cars since the Model T.

Maybe the thread title should be this: How Do You Feel About Learning Non-Licensed Games (Because I'm Thinking About Writing One)?

 

[Fanaelialae]

Can you name a few? Because all I've seen is the usual d20, d10 pool, d6 pool, FATE/Fudge, d100, etc, that all date back to the 80s. Even diceless. Using cards.

Some call hit points something different, some have 0 as perfectly healthy, some use crit hit charts, penetrating dice, exploding dice...but none of that is remotely new.

WHFRP 3rd edition and a Star Wars variant went with unique dice, is the last ones I can think of. That's the closest thing to 'new' I've seen since the 90s.

Off the top of my head, both Red Markets and Red Aegis are a fairly significant departure from standard fare.

In Red Aegis, you play a family of people throughout the ages of the world.

The Red Markets system revolves around the concept of capitalist economics.

I'd say that Phoenix Dawn Command deserves special mention as well. While most of it is superficially similar to something like 5th Age, it's the first RPG (AFAIK) where death isn't simply expected, it's how you "level up".

 

[hawkeyefan]

Millenium's End
Phoenix Command
Riddle of Steel (and its continuations)
Aces & Eights

I feel like our ideas of "breaking the mold" are probably very different. I'm not familiar with Aces & Eights, but the others all seem very similar to other games, and mostly date back to the 90s. Riddle of Steel is newer, but I don't think it pushes the envelope all that much.

I don't know if adding complexity in an attempt to make things more "realistic" is quite the same as pushing the envelope.