D&D General How do you feel about Save or Die?

[Tony Vargas]

Not really, no. Retreat is actually quite easy, if you prepare for it. The trouble is that nobody thinks they need to.

It's really not in any edition. Theoretically, you could bring systematic magic-use into it (Word of Recall, scry-buff-teleport, equipping everyone with matching potions, etc) at least in eds like 3.x, and, even then, vs the kinds of enemies you may need to retreat from in such high-magic campaigns, it might not help.

I play a hexblade in one gaming group, and I always make sure I have expeditious retreat in my ring of spell storing just in case I have to bug out. The other players in my gaming group mock me relentlessly for "being a coward," but you'd be extra careful too if you sold your soul to the Raven Queen.

And have you been the sole survivor of a TPK for that reason?

And, y'know, did you bring a ring of spell storing for everyone?

(Actually, that's a thought: 5e may not have SoD, but it doesn't have generous treasure types & magic item tables, nor wealth/level & make/buy, either.)

And in the D&D group that I am the DM for, my monsters successfully retreat from combat all the time. They make copious use of Disengage and Dash

Sure, and they're probably not any of them slower than the PCs, and aren't trying to carry away fallen comrades, either?

 

[Oofta]

I'm not saying you shouldn't play that way. I'm just suggesting that if you do, maybe you shouldn't blame the DM (or the rules, or your dice, or Mercury retrograde) for your swift demise.

Too slow on my real response. Or maybe I just failed my sarcasm check.

 

[Garthanos]

Sure, and they're probably not any of them slower than the PCs, and aren't trying to carry away fallen comrades, either?

Bet that helps
Isnt there a movie trope that bad guys are just slow enough so the pcs are just fast enough.. to make things exciting

 

[uzirath]

In general it is better to die quickly and roll up a new character than sit and roll death saves.

I haven't played at a table where people could "roll up a new character" mid-game since the early 1980s. Definitely a valid play-style, but not one that I'm accustomed to anymore.

 

[Oofta]

Bet that helps
Isnt there a movie trope that bad guys are just slow enough so the pcs are just fast enough.. to make things exciting

Or the vehicle chase scene. If it's early in the movie the bad guys could be driving a garbage truck while the good guys are race car drivers in supercars but can't catch the bad guys. Always makes me laugh when the secret service Suburban can keep up with the fastest that Lamborghini has to offer.

Or the 5E chase rules. They're okay ... but just okay.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I haven't played at a table where people could "roll up a new character" mid-game since the early 1980s. Definitely a valid play-style, but not one that I'm accustomed to anymore.

I love that dynamic when I paleo-game 1st ed Gamma World. I'll run a scenario where essentially a whole generation of coming-of-age young mutants are sent on the Rite of Passage en masse, and the PC are the handful who pluck up their courage and take point - as they die, someone in the general mob will buck up, step forward, pick up the cool stuff they've found so far, and take their place.
I have the mutations on index cards, and equipment packages based on CHA, so you randomly roll 6 stats in order CONd6 for hps, 2d4 for mutations, % that many times, and receive equipment & mutations on cards, a complete character in moments. You can be playing a new character before the fight you died in is even over (though I've never had anyone go through two characters in one fight & start a third, at least, I'm pretty sure I'd remember that).

...y'know, I haven't run one of those since 5e came out... I should.

 

[dagger]

Characters nowadays are the same now as in the past but thanks for the insults!

 

[Nebulous]

.

Not really, no. Retreat is actually quite easy, if you prepare for it. The trouble is that nobody thinks they need to.

And in the D&D group that I am the DM for, my monsters successfully retreat from combat all the time. They make copious use of Disengage and Dash, many of the more organized and intelligent ones have escape hatches, potions of gaseous form, tanglefoot bags, etc.

It seems that the players will put tons of planning into raiding a dungeon: how they will sneak in, what buffs they need, gather information on what they might find inside, etc. But they never make an escape plan. Nobody ever thinks to ask "okay so if things go badly, how do we get back out?" I'm the only one who ever suggests it, and I'm immediately the wet blanket.

I think it depends a lot on the group and their play style. My old guys do plan a way out, and they've rarely gone anywhere unknown without first scouting it out via an animal or polymorph or invisible or stealth or whatever. That tactic has often saved their butts. The last major fight they were in was the yuan-ti battle in the Fane of the Serpent, and it was going to be a TPK if they didn't surrender or escape. Some of them could have retreated, but at that point they would have been chased down and long term escape wasn't possible anyway, just temporary.

 

[Garthanos]

Or the vehicle chase scene. If it's early in the movie the bad guys could be driving a garbage truck while the good guys are race car drivers in supercars but can't catch the bad guys. Always makes me laugh when the secret service Suburban can keep up with the fastest that Lamborghini has to offer.

Or the 5E chase rules. They're okay ... but just okay.

I seem to find that while escapes worked back in the old days they did so because the DM was a co conspirator in wanting to ignore some numbers and baseline mechanics of the game that made it usually not a good option anyway. Some newer rules like 4e skill challenges can work well but are still definitely DM enabled so I guess that is ok.

 

[iserith]

I haven't played at a table where people could "roll up a new character" mid-game since the early 1980s. Definitely a valid play-style, but not one that I'm accustomed to anymore.

Unless I've taken death off the table for the adventure or campaign, I ask players to create backup characters that can be tapped in in the event of their character's death. I want the player back in the game as soon as possible. I usually see at least 2 deaths per campaign.