D&D 5E How do you handle someone who is not surprised but is unaware of any threats?

[clearstream]

One way or another the PC is aware of all threats before initiative is rolled. That's what the feat does.

The feat does not make them aware of all threats. It makes them immune from being surprised while they are conscious. That's literally what the feat says it does.

My choice would be to change things to allow the feat to do what it was designed to do.

No change is needed. The feat can function as written, without further adornment. The problems are introduced only by those who refuse to see the reference to surprise as a keyword attached to its effects.

 

[Flamestrike]

Until their turn, if those creatures are ethereal, they remain ethereal.

Ethereal creatures attacking from the ethereal plane with surprise?

DM: As you walk down the hallway, you get the sense something is not... right. A shimmering and crackling energy sizzles in the air around you, almost a disturbance in reality itself, and you feel as if you can hear distant gibbering voices, almost as if it was coming from another place entirely. You're all surprised. Roll initiative.

Creatures plane shifting in to attack the PCs with surprise?

DM: As you walk down the hallway, a sudden horrible screeching can be heard, as a tear in reality itself opens in front of you. Spewing forth from this hole in reality you see creatures appear snarling at you with weapons drawn. You're all surprised. Roll initiative.

PCs ambushed by an invisible stalker?

DM: As you walk down the hallway, you notice the air swishing around you in an unusual way, and hear an unearthly howling as -something unseen- launches itself at you with ferocity. You're all surprised. Roll initiative.

Or whatever. It's s simple question of narration of the shift from narrative time, to combat time.

 

[clearstream]

Ethereal creatures attacking from the ethereal plane with surprise?

DM: As you walk down the hallway, you get the sense something is not... right. A shimmering and crackling energy sizzles in the air around you, almost a disturbance in reality itself, and you feel as if you can hear distant gibbering voices, almost as if it was coming from another place entirely. You're all surprised. Roll initiative.

Creatures plane shifting in to attack the PCs with surprise?

DM: As you walk down the hallway, a sudden horrible screeching can be heard, as a tear in reality itself opens in front of you. Spewing forth from this hole in reality you see creatures appear snarling at you with weapons drawn. You're all surprised. Roll initiative.

PCs ambushed by an invisible stalker?

DM: As you walk down the hallway, you notice the air swishing around you in an unusual way, and hear an unearthly howling as -something unseen- launches itself at you with ferocity. You're all surprised. Roll initiative.

Or whatever. It's s simple question of narration of the shift from narrative time, to combat time.

I like those examples. The DM can be clear that something is incoming, while withholding the location and nature of that something. There are other ways to narrate that center more on the character. They might have lightning reflexes (which feeds into the high initiative narrative) or simply be always ready for danger (amazing, those words are in the feat!) A caster with Alert might enjoy having a sense for impending doom. A warlock might call it a hint from their patron. There are so many effective ways to narrate it.

 

[Maxperson]

The feat does not make them aware of all threats. It makes them immune from being surprised while they are conscious. That's literally what the feat says it does.


No change is needed. The feat can function as written, without further adornment. The problems are introduced only by those who refuse to see the reference to surprise as a keyword attached to its effects.

If they are not aware, they are surprised. That is RAW. No awareness = surprised. In order to not be surprised, they must be aware.

 

[clearstream]

If they are not aware, they are surprised. That is RAW. No awareness = surprised. In order to not be surprised, they must be aware.

You just literally misquoted the RAW

In order to not be surprised, they must be conscious.

 

[Maxperson]

You just literally misquoted the RAW

In order to not be surprised, they must be conscious.

Read the surprise rules

 

[clearstream]

Read the surprise rules

To which, the Alert feat creates an exception. Ordinarily, you have to be aware of a threat to avoid being surprised by it. Alert trumps that.

 

[Flamestrike]

To which, the Alert feat creates an exception. Ordinarily, you have to be aware of a threat to avoid being surprised by it. Alert trumps that.

Alert only trumps surprise while your conscious.

 

[Fenris-77]

Exactly, so that character is not in the least bit surprised that he now has arrow through his knee.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Conversely, I feel like the other approach is overthinking and nitpicking. It's trying to spatchcock together a clear mechanical effect with a general adjective. And nitpicking over that mechanic when it can just plainly function as written.


I feel the same way. If you are ambushed, you can't suffer the effects of surprise. That's the only entailment required.


You are always ready to be ambushed, and you don't gain supernatural modes of perception! You react so quickly that surprise can't effect you.


If you are saying that you prefer to change the initiative rules and having done so, Alert works better read as you interpret it, then fair enough. Without changing the initiative rules, it works better without becoming some kind of super-sensory-perception.


Notice how you add the word "aware" there. That word does not appear in the Alert text. You're always ready for danger. That's it.

Yeah, no. You’re twisting both my words and the clear meaning of the plain language in the books.

Not interested.