How do You Handle the Big 6?

[Tequila Sunrise]

Recently I've been thinking about adventure, loot, Magic Marts, and the Big 6.

How do you make sure your PCs get the stuff the game assumes they're supposed to have? Do you drop all the right useful loot, or do you run one of the oft-derided Magic Marts? Or is this 'supposed to have' idea just player entitlement speaking?

If you could give your PCs all the bonuses they're 'supposed to have' without handing out a ton of loot, would you? Or do your players like the loot-sell-buy-repeat dynamic?

 

[Ahnehnois]

Honestly I don't think about it that much.

I just give them tons of loot, let them access magic items to purchase periodically, and let them figure it out. I equip NPCs with high-quality magic gear to compete. Always works out fine.

I think the presumptive use of certain magic item bonuses is a fundamental problem in 3e, but it doesn't affect game play that much when you play it like I do.

Ideally, there would be a base dodge bonus and the big 6 would not exist or would be seriously changed.

 

[Alexander123]

I generally use the NPC statistics on pg. 110 of the DMG. Each NPC generally has the equipment which the pregenerated NPCs are given.

I don't have magic marts although low level magic goods are available while at the higher levels the best option is to make the item yourself. (with an artificer since crafting is so much easier with this class.)

I would not give my PCs the bonuses they are supposed to have without handing out loot.

 

[Keldryn]

I've borrowed the 4e Essentials item rarity concept for my upcoming 3.5 game.

Common items include potions, scrolls of 4th level or lower, wands, and arms and armor of up to +2 enchantment value. Such items can be crafted by PCs pretty much by the book. There are no magic item superstores, but common items can be found for sale in large enough settlements (more or less by the book).

Rare items include the minor artifacts, unique items, rings of wishes, and other items that I decide need to be controlled tightly. Rare items can't be crafted by PCs and are extremely unlikely to be found for sale.

Uncommon items include everything else. Uncommon items may be crafted by PCs, but first they must actually know about the item (the DMG not being a mail-order catalog and all that). I don't have a hard-and-fast rule for whether or not the character knows about the item, but a creative idea and the character spending some time engaged in researching the formula for an item will generally be good enough. Uncommon items will also usually require a specific thematically-appropriate component (or components), which may require some adventuring in order to acquire. If acquiring the materials will be a huge ordeal, I might waive some or all of the gold/xp cost for crafting it. Uncommon items are generally not available for purchase.

The stat-boosting items would fall into the "uncommon" category. They have a very significant effect on the game and provide a useful benefit across many situations, so they won't be trivial to craft or acquire. A Belt of Giant Strength might need to be woven from the beard of a frost giant and anointed with the blood of a stone giant, for example.

The assumptions as to what gear PCs will have at a particular level are relatively transparent, so I prefer the approach of using lower-powered opponents to giving the PCs inherent bonuses instead of magic items. The latter approach just keeps the numbers inflated.

I'm comfortable making adjustments as we go along, so if restricting access to magic items hurts the PCs too much, I'll respond accordingly.

 

[Sekhmet]

I don't really like the look of that system. You'd get every point possible at each level bracket before moving to the next bracket, so by level 17 you'd have +5 to everything.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

think of your players like a child in a super market

they see what they want (candy, +5 vorpal longsword, a puppy, staff of fire, ect. ect.) and they whine about it until you give it to them right?

if you give it to them, it means THAT works and theyll continue to do just than and then you have low level characters with high powered items


so, what do you do?
random magic items, USE THEM CHARTS BOY!

if you have the magic item compendium, those charts are AMAZING, i mean it, they rock



let the adventures create the characters, i have one of my players who creates the ENTIRE CHARACTER FROM 1ST TO 20TH LEVEL with what feats hes gonna take and skill points and spells ect. ect. including magic items...he makes most of them since i dont like just giving people what they want, they have to earn it...that and if he got everything he wanted then it would just be him being super man and everyone doing nothing, hes kinda an ego killer, but every group has one

so to recap:
use random treasure
if you have the magic item compendium, those charts are awsome
try to have the adventures/encounters/treasure/freak accident build the character to what they are


that last one was for players


--

 

[Alexander123]

You have an interesting idea of dividing items into common, rare, uncommon etc. etc. It reminds me of how Diablo 2 divides items into common, rare, set and unique items

I do have a few disagreements with your idea. While I would have common items available, as far as uncommon items and rare items I would either require crafting or having someone craft it for you.

Also as far as the issue of researching an item, I assume player access to knowledge of what can be crafted or not.

 

[Dandu]

so to recap:
use random treasure
if you have the magic item compendium, those charts are awsome
try to have the adventures/encounters/treasure/freak accident build the character to what they are

Man, playing a Fighter must be fun in your games.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I don't really like the look of that system. You'd get every point possible at each level bracket before moving to the next bracket, so by level 17 you'd have +5 to everything.

Well, not everything. If ya want to boost more than three ability scores, you'll have to neglect other bonuses.

That fact aside, yeah, having +5 to a bunch of stuff is the point. (I originally set LLP gain at a slower pace, but that leaves MAD classes in the dust.)

The assumptions as to what gear PCs will have at a particular level are relatively transparent...

Mind clarifying what those assumptions are? I mean, I think it's pretty clear what PCs are supposed to have too but I might have a different idea than you. And judging from the responses I've already seen here and elsewhere, it's apparently not transparent to a lot of DMs at all.

 

[akbearfoot]

in 3.x, I think a characters stuff is as essential to a character as their ability scores and character history.

For one, the rules assume you have such items. For another, most players take great delight at getting phat lewtz. On the other hand, it kills a lot of peoples fun if they feel like their characters are hobbled by insufficient funds, or the inability to get stuff that they desire for their characters.

Clearly, it depends highly on the gaming group. If they are roll-players, or role-players. Most people I think fit somewhere near the middle of the spectrum between the uber munchkin, goblins dropping Vorpal swords and the SCA, LARPER, guy that always stays in character and throws beanbags at strangers on the streets type.

For me...I like getting cool stuff. If I think of something really cool that I want my character to have, I usually mention it specifically. 'Hey, I'd really like to get a mithral breastplate, I totally cant afford it yet, but its at the top of my shopping list." It's a:not game-breaking, b:a basic core material, and c:the best dang thing available for characters that care about maintaining their mobility.

We're in a high level game right now at 19th level. that we started at first level like a year and a half ago in RL. Most of my characters items were acquired organically between like 4th and 9th level that we spent time getting enhanced along the way. There is the cloak we had tailored based on our 'group name' that started as a MW cloak that spent time as everything from +1 to +5 resistance. The sword that was gifted to me that has slowly evolved from a +1 sword to a +8 equivalent. The boots of speed I've worn since like 3rd level that haven't changed. The mithral breastplate and mithral buckler that have been around since I got my DM to relent and let me 'find' in Sharn. I think we bribed him with cookies for those, lol.

I am not sure I could name 5 American presidents(and I live here) But I can remember in order almost to the item everything my character has ever put on in a year and a half of gaming. Same thing with most peoples spells and class features etc. Most people remember the reasons WHY they choose certain spells, or why they decided to go a multi-class route, etc. Cuz those things are just as much a part of 'the experience' as the cool stuffs they find along the way. Which is why a lot of people would rather their characters die then have their stuff taken away or have their characters imprisoned against their wills.