D&D 5E How do you handle the "economy killing spells" in your game?

[jgsugden]

I didn't change a word, I added the emphasis to show why your idea won't work, most likely ever.

So you identified one of the conditions I said was necessary for the result and said it could not work as part of the proposition. When you counter an argument by taking away a stated assumption for the argument, you are not counteing the argument. That was my point.

 

[5ekyu]

He also has to learn blacksmithing and how to make plate armor, which is not easy and does not take 10 minutes. Granted, it's a one-time investment, but it's not quite as trivial as you make it sound. Furthermore, his income is limited by his customer base. Materials costs set a floor of 750 gp on the price of plate; the wizard can only sell as much armor as there are people willing to shell out that kind of cash.

But never mind all that. The question is, even assuming the wizard makes the investment and finds the customers, how is this "economy-killing?" The wizard might kill the careers of some high-end armorers, but the business model doesn't scale to the economy as a whole. You don't clear 750 gp a pop making farm tools for peasants, or furniture for minor merchants.

So, here is the rub... in order to craft armor with fabricate you have to know how to craft armor. So, who taught the wizard these crafts that then apparently in some campaigns lead to unemployment?

"You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects."

 

[Dausuul]

So, here is the rub... in order to craft armor with fabricate you have to know how to craft armor. So, who taught the wizard these crafts that then apparently in some campaigns lead to unemployment?

"You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects."

I'd assume that in a world where this is a thing, you learn the craft from another armorer-wizard. As someone else pointed out, you need people to handle mundane details like marketing, supplies, and so forth. So you take on an apprentice, teach them wizardry and armorsmithing, and in return the apprentice takes care of all that boring crap that you the wizard don't want to bother with. By the time the apprentice reaches 7th level, you're probably ready to retire.

While the OP skims over some of the nasty details, the armorer-wizard really is a legit business model that could work. It just isn't an economy-wrecker, because it depends on selling high-priced luxury goods to rich customers. The carpenter who makes furniture for the petty bourgeoisie, or the blacksmith shoeing peasants' draft horses, have nothing to fear from wizardly competition, and those are the vast majority of crafters.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So you identified one of the conditions I said was necessary for the result and said it could not work as part of the proposition. When you counter an argument by taking away a stated assumption for the argument, you are not counteing the argument. That was my point.

So, jgsugden, you replied and then blocked me so I can't see your reply? Very mature.

I never took away your assumption, I emphasized it because it is a very faulty assumption considering what people are like in the real world--and thus likely the same in a fantasy world. I agree it would be much better if people were kinder and more generous with their time, money, education, etc., but sadly they aren't. That doesn't mean people are necessarily bad, but are simply more concerned with with what is happening in their own lives than others.

 

[Umbran]

Gentlemen,

Cut it out. You were verging on political discussion that would get you booted from the thread. Continuing to argue over it is not doing anyone any favors. Drop it. Now.

Thank you.

 

[Umbran]

Its 10 minutes a day...that's it.

No, it probably isn't.

There are things like frying pans that one can reproduce via a stock pattern. Armor (or probably anything wiht a high enough sale value to make this worthwhile for the wizard) isn't one of them - nobody buys plate armor "off the rack". It is a piece of custom work, like a modern bespoke suit, where you have to sit down with the client, take their measurements, discuss materials, and otherwise determine exactly what the customer wants. Every step of design a normal smith does *before* putting hammer to anvil still has to be done by the wizard.

And, like any professional, the price you pay is not just paying for the individual item, but all the education of the craftsman that goes into making the item. For a smith, you're paying for their proficiency with the tools, essentially. For the wizard, you are paying for that proficiency, *and* the years of hazard to gain levels to be able to cast the spell.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Satyrn]

*dashes off after the squirrel*

 

[Dausuul]

There are things like frying pans that one can reproduce via a stock pattern. Armor (or probably anything wiht a high enough sale value to make this worthwhile for the wizard) isn't one of them - nobody buys plate armor "off the rack". It is a piece of custom work, like a modern bespoke suit, where you have to sit down with the client, take their measurements, discuss materials, and otherwise determine exactly what the customer wants. Every step of design a normal smith does *before* putting hammer to anvil still has to be done by the wizard.

It has to be done, but most of it does not have to be done by the wizard. When you clear 750 gp on every sale, you can pay for a fairly swanky establishment and assistants/apprentices, and still come away with a hefty profit margin for a relatively small amount of work; maybe 2-4 hours per day, when you consider the demands of running a small business (which is what you are doing).

Alternatively, if you don't feel like being a business owner, you could attach yourself to a regular armorer's shop. Each day, the most expensive item in their queue gets assigned to you to fabricate, and you collect a commission. The regular armorers make chain shirts and breastplates for the plebes, while you take the fancy clients.

No, you can't make 750 gp a day for 10 minutes of work, but it's a pretty good way for a 7th-level wizard with Smith's Tools proficiency to make a living. What it isn't is an economic game-changer.

And, like any professional, the price you pay is not just paying for the individual item, but all the education of the craftsman that goes into making the item. For a smith, you're paying for their proficiency with the tools, essentially. For the wizard, you are paying for that proficiency, *and* the years of hazard to gain levels to be able to cast the spell.

Also true, but in the context of a PC wizard, I think we are assuming that investment has already been made. At least, I've never seen anything in the chargen rules about student loans. As a general business model, of course, training costs are very much a thing.

 

[Quartz]

Fabricate - I changed all the 'Skill spells' so they add +10 bonus to Skill, so you will still need to have a Blacksmith to craft armour, but the spell makes it a much easier tasks.

I really, really like this.