D&D 5E How do you kill a 10th level character?

[Bugbear70]

As my poor gnome bard laid there on the dungeon floor at 0 hp, awaiting my turn to make a death save (or for the cleric to make his way to me) and the BBG kept casting fireballs in the vicinity of my poor, smoking body--I sure felt the threat of character death in 5E. As my life flashed before my character's eyes, I kept thinking 'why did I play a bard?' and 'why did I play a gnome?'

 

[Psikerlord#]

PC durability is absolutely my biggest complaint about D&D5 (it's still not a very big complaint, though). Beyond about 3rd level, barring very specific abilities and spells that don't make sense in all campaigns or all encounters, a TPK is more or less the only way to put a PC down by the RAW.

But I don't think the real problem is that PCs are hard to kill. The problem I'm seeing is that a player with a character at 5 HP plays his character the same as he would at full health, because the risk to him is so minimal. With a life cleric in the party being knocked unconscious is barely an inconvenience.

Which is why I're revised my position on coup de grace. I've always thought of it as a dick move, and in previous editions where a single attack would kill outright I think it was. PCs were unlikely to get back up during combat, so the coup de grace was reserved for only the most villainous of opponents with an interest in demoralizing their foes. Using it more often smacked of desperation on the part of the dungeon master -- one should not have to resort to mean-spirited tricks to challenge one's players.

But in a world where a fallen combatant is decidedly /not/ out of the action, monsters are going to learn to make sure they stay down. Smacking a downed enemy once to rid it of two death saves before moving on is a very attractive strategic consideration. And it means PCs are going to be a lot more careful about being at low HP.

I suggest taking a look at the injuries table. I dislike the whack-a-mole DnD, bouncing up and down from 0 hp with no issues. So I use an injury table when a PC hits zero. But you could also say require a death save at half hp/"bloodied", if they fail, suffer an injury or something.

 

[Psikerlord#]

[MENTION=58197]Dausuul[/MENTION]:

I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't understand why you don't factor in the DM's tactical decisions as part of the mechanical underpinnings of the system, when they are actually a very critical variable in the equation.

It is no less the case that a DM who chooses not to attack an unconscious character is also intervening in the system's resolution.

Further, it is entirely possible for a DM to determine ahead of time that a certain NPC will attack downed opponents if given the chance. That isn't "choosing to kill a PC." It's choosing to follow through on a predetermined tactical course.

yeah I use the 13th Age "Brains" rule for zombies - they keep attacking until the PC is dead, dead, dead. Makes them a HELL of a lot more scary. Also, I think ruthless enemies like dragons might attack a downed PC if the cleric is popping him up and down each round... then one round the dragon might just attack that zero hp guy and "finish him for good". I think that would be a legit tactic on the rare occasion.

 

[Jaelommiss]

I suggest taking a look at the injuries table. I dislike the whack-a-mole DnD, bouncing up and down from 0 hp with no issues. So I use an injury table when a PC hits zero. But you could also say require a death save at half hp/"bloodied", if they fail, suffer an injury or something.

Something I do is award a level of exhaustion upon reaching 0HP. Sure, you can get back up and keep going, but you will be weaker for the rest of the day. If you go down a second time you will now be slowing the party down. A third time and you'll be lucky to hit enemies and pass saving throws, including your death saves. A fourth will cut your HP in half, making it even easier for you to get knocked unconcious. After you drop a fifth time you will no longer be able to move under your own power. If your party literally drags you along at this point, then you will die the next time you go to 0HP.

If reduced to 0 from a critial hit I will give a lingering injury in addition to their level of exhaustion.

I find that my players are MUCH more careful with their HP. They would rather keep themselves topped off and have remaining HP at the end of the day than have their day cut short by exhaustion.

 

[Nebulous]

Something I do is award a level of exhaustion upon reaching 0HP. Sure, you can get back up and keep going, but you will be weaker for the rest of the day. If you go down a second time you will now be slowing the party down. A third time and you'll be lucky to hit enemies and pass saving throws, including your death saves. A fourth will cut your HP in half, making it even easier for you to get knocked unconcious. After you drop a fifth time you will no longer be able to move under your own power. If your party literally drags you along at this point, then you will die the next time you go to 0HP.

If reduced to 0 from a critial hit I will give a lingering injury in addition to their level of exhaustion.

I find that my players are MUCH more careful with their HP. They would rather keep themselves topped off and have remaining HP at the end of the day than have their day cut short by exhaustion.

I need to use the Exhaustion rules. They're great, and the party is about to hit 5th level and I haven't even touched the rules yet.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Something I do is award a level of exhaustion upon reaching 0HP. Sure, you can get back up and keep going, but you will be weaker for the rest of the day. If you go down a second time you will now be slowing the party down. A third time and you'll be lucky to hit enemies and pass saving throws, including your death saves. A fourth will cut your HP in half, making it even easier for you to get knocked unconcious. After you drop a fifth time you will no longer be able to move under your own power. If your party literally drags you along at this point, then you will die the next time you go to 0HP.

If reduced to 0 from a critial hit I will give a lingering injury in addition to their level of exhaustion.

I find that my players are MUCH more careful with their HP. They would rather keep themselves topped off and have remaining HP at the end of the day than have their day cut short by exhaustion.

Yeah I like this idea too.

 

[Jishosan]

The one thing I have learned from this thread? I am a polar opposite DM from Jester.

 

[Hussar]

Funny enough, we just had one 4th level PC buy it and a second, 5th level PC, come within a hair.

Rolling a 1 on a death save is a VERY BAD THING.

 

[Jishosan]

When it comes to NPC and motivation to killing blow, I assume they do not have knowledge about metagame mechanics like death saving throws. However, particularly vicious enemies will give the fallen character the typical "sword in the gut" for good measure, which leaves them with only a single death saving throw failure left. This adds a lot of suspense and realism without just saying "you're dead, ha ha!". Additionally, I will let people spend their action point/inspiration/etc to auto-stabilize.

But, I'm a narrative DM. I've also been playing and DMing for 33 years now, and my goal is to create a story framework in which the characters grow. Since I rarely have the same group twice, I tend towards long, epic campaigns, with a strong sense of direction and some appropriate level of sandbox thrown in, though always reasonably minimal. I don't expect my characters to die. Sure, there is tension in combat, but my games have always been characterized far less by "what now" than "what next?". My players usually get drawn into the story and want to know what is around the corner, twists and turns and plot pieces. Combat is a tool that forwards that along, but my characters never really expect to die in any permanent fashion in my game, and I think that's okay. I think Lethal campaigns are fine too, though I find no joy in playing them. And not if I'm dying in "epic combat" to a group of gnolls. It takes me a significant amount of time to craft a character that I can play, so re-rolling a level 1 (or even creating a new level appropriate toon) has very little joy for me. I take the same amount of time to craft truly expansive stories for my players to experience, so I try to make sure they can. Tension from my games often comes from the fact that I keep time and events moving while the players do things. It's what I'm best known for. Plots advance while players rest off wounds or track down a higher level cleric to resurrect a fallen comrade. Dominoes fall and the plot changes if the players take too many risks, or not enough.

That doesn't mean I let them survive sheer stupidity. Especially since I often drop lots of hints that an action is very stupid. But my epic heroes are unlikely to ever TPK due to good monster dice rolls.

 

[bgbarcus]

When it comes to NPC and motivation to killing blow, I assume they do not have knowledge about metagame mechanics like death saving throws.

If your NPC's get death saves it isn't metagaming. My players have healed felled opponents before their death saves run out just to question them. There's no reason to assume death saves are only for PC's.