D&D 5E (2024) How do you rule using a Hand Crossbow with a nick weapon

[UngeheuerLich]

- heck, let’s go bananas and let you close it behind you too!

Dissociative mechanic.

 

[ECMO3]

The Crossbow Expert feat specifically let you load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.

Where does it "specifically" say this? To my knowledge, niether the 2014 or 2024 version specifically say this, nor do they say they overrides the ammunition property.

 

[ECMO3]

As UngeheuerLich say, a non Crossbow Expert can still attack 2+ on a turn with a Loading weapon, for exemple attacking with a Hand Crossbow, and then attacking again with another Action such as Action Surge.

Likewise, a non Crossbow Expert can attack with a Hand Crossbow, unequip it, use a Free Item Interaction to equip a different Hand Crossbow and attack with it as a Bonus Action.

Yes but BOTH of these characters need to have their other hand free in order to load the crossbow, per the ammunition property.

 

[ECMO3]

I could easily picture a Crossbow Expert putting the crossbow between it's legs or under an arm, reload with the hand before picking it up again.

Sure I can picture it, but that is not RAW. RAW he needs a free hand to load a piece of ammunition.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

If you were holding multiple loading weapons, do you get a once per round use for each individual weapon?

That was my understanding, yes.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes but BOTH of these characters need to have their other hand free in order to load the crossbow, per the ammunition property.

I don't see any reason why the other hand should not be free when reloading.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sure I can picture it, but that is not RAW. RAW he needs a free hand to load a piece of ammunition.

At the time of reloading. Not at the time of shooting.
Otherwise bows and other crossbows were unusable as they are classified as two handed weapons.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Frankly, I think it’s stupid that the rules treat interacting with the environment as a distinct type of thing you can do on your turn that requires restricting the number of times it can be done. If it needs to be part of some action anyway, just let it be part of that action. Draw a weapon when you attack with it. Uncork a potion when you drink it. Open a door when you move through it - heck, let’s go bananas and let you close it behind you too! I don’t see why any of these things need to be restricted independent of the restrictions that already exist on moving and taking actions.

I completely agree with that. And yet ....

There is a fundamental issue ... a divide ... going on. I don't want to get jargon-y, so I'll put it like this...

On the one side, you have people who think that the rules are all that matter. Which can be okay, but taken to an extreme, it leads to "D&D as videogame." In other words, whatever you can dream up to take advantage of the rules is totally fine, even if it makes "no sense"* at all.

On the other side, you have people who think that the rules are just some of the agreed-upon framework to allow the RPG to happen. In other words, rules will always be somewhat "game-y" (because it is a game, and because it is an approximation) but they are still trying to get an approximation of playing in some actual ... world.

As an individual, I fall on the latter side. As someone who, um, likes rules, I try to interpret rules based on the former side. But as a DM ... I have to deal with both sides. Because players comes in all kinds.

In my experience, there isn't much of an issue with someone trying to make a cool concept work within the rules- because I can always work with them to make it work- either through re-skinning or adjusting the rules. As I said before, if someone pitched a concept of a character that dual-wielded handcrossbows, I'd work with them to make it happen! Because if they thought that was cool, I'm sure it would be. The rules are there to try (and usually fail) to prevent people abusing them- but they shouldn't prevent players from having a good time with the character they want.

And the little persnickety rules of the action economy just do not matter for 98% of the players. Other than the occasional reminder that you ONLY GET ONE BONUS ACTION, DEREK!!!!! Ahem. But the reason that they are there, and they need to be parsed, is because that people will parse them to try and eek out every possible benefit they can, even if it means that they are carrying around 20 weapons so that they can drop and equip and juggle them at all moments.

Personally, I think that the rules are interesting to read, because I like to read and interpret rules. But ... I haven't had to utilize restrictions on "weapon juggling" because no one at my table does that. I think that if they did, we would have to discuss what they want from the game.



*This can always be a point of dispute, of course. What makes "no sense" to a person assuming a relatively "grounded and gritty" fantasy game is different than someone assuming a "wuxia and superheroes" fantasy game.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Where does it "specifically" say this? To my knowledge, niether the 2014 or 2024 version specifically say this, nor do they say they overrides the ammunition property.

It specifically say it in the 2024 Crossbow Expert feat.

Crossbow Expert: You ignore the Loading property of the Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, and Light Crossbow (all called crossbows elsewhere in this feat). If you're holding one of them, you can load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Sure I can picture it, but that is not RAW. RAW he needs a free hand to load a piece of ammunition.

It is RAW now as a Crossbow Expert you can load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.

Crossbow Expert: You ignore the Loading property of the Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, and Light Crossbow (all called crossbows elsewhere in this feat). If you're holding one of them, you can load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.