How do you think 4E will morph?

[questing gm]

While I'm most delighted that I won't be seeing new classes in the splatbooks (X Power) which will be put into the PHBs, I'm wondering what exactly is going to be in those splatbooks.

More powers? Definately.
More feats? Definately.
More skill uses? I thought that was pretty neat back in 3.x.
More PPs and EDs? That would be just like PrCs in 3.x.
More magic items and equipment? Ughhh.....

But if all the above are going to be in the splatbooks, then what is going to be left for the PHBs? I mean, would we be seeing splatbook material with 'added' classes? That would make the PHBs perfectly similar with the 3.x splats.

At the moment for 4e, I'm seeing the PHBs being a 'generic' splatbook while the Power books becoming a specific splatbook. Which is going to increase the speed of the edition going through an 'options bloat'.

Just my skepticism, I sure hope I'm wrong.

 

[pogminky]

Power Creep - slowly in books, quickly in on-line content.

Loads more rituals, monsters, traps, classes, equipment, races, magic items, psionics, powers and class options. Too many for any sane DM to keep track off.

Later on - optional rules for combat actions, alternative magic systems, two-handed fighting etc.

 

[Corjay]

Subject line about says it. I'm just wondering how people thing 4E will change and grow. With 3E you has prestige classes take off. With 4E will it be the multi only classes? What kinds of things do you see being added? What being complete cluster f f. . . friends (stealing a line there ? and needing to be rewritten. What's the biggest effect 3rd party stuff will have this time around?

I think nothing in 4e can be considered "cluster f f" as you put it. Simple refinements may be needed.

As for third party stuff, I think it will play a huge part. After all, people ARE complaining that there aren't enough of their classes and spells and stuff. Thus there's huge opportunity there for 3rd party publishers to make a buck. Not only that, but the GSL isn't as painful as people seem to claim. So what, there's a bunch of "look to the PHB" stuff in the SRD. All that does is say "hey, this stuff is based off our product, so you need to buy our product if you want to benefit from our system. We didn't put it in an SRD so that we don't get a dime out of it."

WOTC made a wise business decision that I was wondering before this GSL why they weren't securing their bottom line more. Now they are. But it's going to be a boon in the long term to GSL publishers, because now they get to use the D&D logo which is actually a huge boon to them. There's a reason why companies like to use names and logos that are similar to larger brands, so that there's brand confusion (Swords & Sorcery anyone?). But here, it's not brand confusion, it's shear brand identity. Everyone should want to ride those coattails.

Not only that, but they still have the flexibility to create their own systems around it without having to slave to it the way people seem to be thinking. The 4e GSL gives just as much freedom as the 3.5 GSL, except now you have to own the PHB to benefit from anything in the 3rd party publishers material that references the SRD information. Hardly worth crying about.

4e is going to be stronger than ever in 1) license, 2) exposure, and 3) amount (as well as efficiency) of supplemental material.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I don't think it will change, not how 3.5 did.

In 3.5, after awhile, you saw a lot of variant rules start to come out. Tome of Battle. Tome of Magic. Different rulesets for different kinds of characters. New ways of casting spells that didn't lean on Vancian. Right off the bat in 3e you had vancian casters and the non-vancian at-will abilities, sometimes done through feats, as well as the "# per day" abilities.

In 4e, *everything* seems completely built around the Powers system. I very strongly doubt we'll see anything that doesn't adhere to it.

So while it won't change and grow vertically, I think 4e will just fatten up. You know, grow horizontally. More splats with more classes, powers, paragon paths, magic items, etc.

 

[AtomicPope]

Subject line about says it. I'm just wondering how people thing 4E will change and grow. With 3E you has prestige classes take off. With 4E will it be the multi only classes? What kinds of things do you see being added? What being complete cluster f f. . . friends (stealing a line there ? and needing to be rewritten. What's the biggest effect 3rd party stuff will have this time around?

Lets take it point by point:
1) Paragon Classes - Paragon classes were designed to mimic the character customization of Prestige classes while removing the nit-noid requirements. I think that Paragon classes will expand to offer more options as Racial Paragon Classes so we'll see the return of Dwarven Defender. I also think we might see some more "Multiclass" type Paragon classes like the Wizard of the Spiral Tower. This PC is rather popular.
2) What will be added - Multiclassing will be flushed out with more feats to allow deeper customization. I think that a feat will emerge to allow players to swap an At Will power. Furthermore, I see some class features finding their way into Multiclass feats to allow players to qualify for a PC. Wizard Spells will also see some major changes to make their Controller Damage spells competitive with Cleric controller damage spells.
3) 3rd Party Stuff - Personally I would love for Iron Kindoms to be a 4e game rather than a 3e game. I'm a rabid Warmachine player and as it stands the 3e system doesn't do Warmachine any justice. The cinematic explosive style of gaming is better represented in 4e. Whether or not they take that plunge I cannot rightly say, but dammit I wish they would. So far the WotC team has done a decent job with Dragon and Dungeon but Eric Mona is a talented individual and they have some big shoes to fill. I think that his talent will allow the divisive nature of a version war to linger, simply because Paizo publishing is very good at what it does. Unfortunately for 3e not every company has Eric Mona as their Editor in Chief and most will likely buckle in short order.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I think "ideally" you'll see more and more powerful stuff released until the game groans, and then reboot to a new edition.

The Warhammer 40k model.

The funny thing is that the MtG guys are very aware of power creep and try to keep it in check - look here.

Of course, the most powerful stuff was released in the very first sets, because they lacked a grasp of the workings of the game... which makes only a handful of each set even remotely playable in the old formats - the reason why they have a cycling tournament structure.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The funny thing is that the MtG guys are very aware of power creep and try to keep it in check - look here.

Ehhh...he TALKS a good game, but I'm not buying it.

Not all of it, anyway.

I got out of M:tG mainly because of stupid card rulings and revisions. I also disliked how they would ban the wrong card out of broken combos.

However, power creep did play a little role in my decision. I kept seeing powerful cards get banned...then republished in a different color or with a slightly higher cost.

It doesn't take a rocket monkey to figure out that top players will play whatever color it takes to get the effects they want, and they can always find a way to get the mana they want for a given card.

 

[Khuxan]

Judging by the Fan Creations forum, demand is highest for classes and races. I have a feeling this will exhaust itself after Wizards releases more of its classes and races - at which point I think feats and powers will become the focus.

 

[Nightson]

Things I want:

More Powers
More Rituals
More Feats
More Classes
More Paragon Paths
Way More Epic Destinies


I hope they can keep power creep in check. I also hope they can manage it that a new class is not horribly inferior to the old classes because said new class hasn't had years of splat books to benefit it.

 

[questing gm]

Judging by the Fan Creations forum, demand is highest for classes and races. I have a feeling this will exhaust itself after Wizards releases more of its classes and races - at which point I think feats and powers will become the focus.

Interesting. Now I can see the PHBs becoming what the 'Races' and part of the 'Completes' splatbooks do from the 3.x period, it will do for 4e.