How do you use aligmnent based mechanics without alignment?

[SidusLupus]

As the title suggests, I am curious about the worlds where the DM either choses to throw out alignment in favor of encouraging heroics, or where the rules of alignment are far less stiff than the rules as written.

How do you have your specifically alignment based abilities work there? Throw them out and replace them? They always work? They never work?

Things i'm specifically thinking of are,

Detect Alignment/ Smite Alignment
Protection from Alignment

Holy/Unholy/Chaotic/Lawful weapons, ect.

 

[osarusan]

One thing I've used is intention. If you intention at the time is something "evil," then you'd register on a detect spell. For example, a thief in a bar planning on mugging on of the patrons would show up as "evil" for having a premeditated plan to cause harm.

In combat, attacking a paladin would be evil, and so a smite would work against that character. This makes it pretty easy for the paladin to smite anyone who would knowingly attack a paladin.

For the most part, this means alignment based spells are much less useful, and it's all up to DM judgement calls to decide whether a particular group is acting "evil" in combat, making a protection from evil spell work.

 

[Turanil]

I use allegiances. Allegiances are not required of everyone, and could be many different things (allegiance to the king, to the Church, whatever). A paladin simply has allegiances to Law and Good, while other PCs may have no allegiance at all. Allegiances are found in the d20 Modern SRD.

 

[I'm A Banana]

From what I can tell, most people drop those spells, or just have them work on specific kinds of outsiders (e.g.: Celestials can be hurt by Blasphemey, Bob the Friendly Farmer cannot). It does'nt make a whole lot of sense to be protected from evil when there's not really any Evil in the world.

But since I really like alignment not just as an expedient method of explanation of motives, but also as a game element that can introduce complexity, focus, and drive to a character or a situation, I can't really say anything more than what I've observed others doing.

 

[Particle_Man]

Legends of Excalibur uses a Nobility Score (1-100) and makes the gains and losses "Deed based" and has effects be relative. So a holy weapon only does extra damage if your nobility is higher than your opponents.

But if you do away with alignment, then you might replace the Smite/Detects/etc. with "enemies of your faith/order" or maybe even "favored enemy (a la ranger)".

 

[Tonguez]

Look at the Detect Evil spell (following CAP from the SRD

From the SRD
Evil creature
Undead (HD)
Evil outsider (HD)
Cleric of an evil deity (class levels)
Evil magic item or spell (caster level)

The list is pretty explicit about what counts when using the spell.
An Evil creature is one that has the EVIL descriptor (just as a Good creature has the GOOD descriptor etc)

Also note that a X-Neutral Cleric of an evil god will detect as Evil (showing that the spell doesn't link to Alignment)

 

[Abstraction]

I've struggled with this. In my game I don't really play with alignment, but there are exceptions. Anyone or anything that has made some kind of binding pact registers the appropriate alignment. Clerics, Paladins, Outsiders, Undead all register alignment. Most other things, while they may do bad things, are motivated by more normal desires. Orc and goblins are not affected/detected by alignment spells. This has a bit of effect on game balance, so I'm always struggling with it. Still, I would rather do this than have the great Hammer of Alignment hanging over people's heads. Plus, it makes for better roleplaying/moral dilemmas. The players often agonize over whether it really is alright to exterminate an entire goblin tribe, for example.

 

[Nifft]

Yep, I too follow the lead of detect evil and use sponsorship rather than conduct to determine supernatural auras.

If you serially kill lots of people: you are probably not [Good], because no-one [Good] would sponsor you (grant you divine supernatural powers). However, you might not be [Evil], because you haven't attracted the attention of the Lower Planes (yet).

If you are an arcane spellcaster who casts a lot of spells with the [Evil] descriptor, you are in fact calling upon Dark Forces of Evil(tm), and thus you are in fact tainting yourself... even if you profess athiesm and neutrality.

Can you be a demon-empowered warrior who fights for Good causes? Sure, but not for long. Eventually, your sponsors will notice your conduct and cut you off. Same goes for Paladins, of course.

-- N

 

[I'm A Banana]

Still, I would rather do this than have the great Hammer of Alignment hanging over people's heads. Plus, it makes for better roleplaying/moral dilemmas. The players often agonize over whether it really is alright to exterminate an entire goblin tribe, for example.

psssst, alignment means characters agonize over this, AND can have direct reprocussions from the event what with spells to detect what they are for their actions....

Just so ya know, alignment doesn't really remove that agony....

Back to the thread!

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I mostly pitched alignments out of our game. Paladins, Blackguards, and Clerics, as well as Vile or Exhalted characters still detect, though and still remain subject to smite attacks, as does any creature with an alignment subtype. Creatures without an alignment subtype generally treat alignment-based spells and effects as though they did not exist.