D&D 5E How do you use the Thief subclass features?

[redrick]

I usually GM, but have recently started playing at a local store to get more of the experience of a player, and I've created a rogue sage (wizard's dirty errand boy). In looking at the different subclasses, "thief" is definitely most in line with my character, because that's what he is. The guy who sneaks into rival wizard towers and steals their scrolls and books and potions for his employer, a wizard with few scruples.

However, in looking at the low-level features of the subclass, I notice that these are all fairly non-combat features built around the combat action economy. They don't grant bonuses to sleight of hand, thieves tools or climbing. They allow the thief to do these things faster when on the 6-second clock of a combat turn. Cool, because this makes the thief a potentially very creative class to play in combat. But, in practice, how do other players of thieves find this feature being used in your game? Does your DM just create a lot of scenarios with mechanical traps and monsters working in concert? Or lots of ropes and ladders hanging around? I'll admit that these things are almost never present in my game.

What kinds of fun things do you do with your sleight of hands as a bonus action?

My concern would be that it becomes one of those classes where it's only useful because the GM specifically modifies gameplay to introduce elements that allow the character to shine. As opposed to a lot of situations where the players turn to each other and say, "man, wouldn't it be nice if we had a thief subclass in this moment?" Personally, I find the former a little cheesy. I think part of the whole 'bounded accuracy' ethos is that the challenges don't have to be fine-tuned to every party, because the party still has a chance to succeed at things it is bad at.

Anyway, I'll probably still take the subclass regardless, but curious on thoughts.

 

[Mistwell]

When your thief picks up the Healer feat and uses it as a bonus action to heal someone it will pay off big

 

[The Crimson Binome]

However, in looking at the low-level features of the subclass, I notice that these are all fairly non-combat features built around the combat action economy. They don't grant bonuses to sleight of hand, thieves tools or climbing. They allow the thief to do these things faster when on the 6-second clock of a combat turn.

Combat is an illusion. This isn't Final Fantasy, where there's a swoosh and suddenly everyone is in combat. The 6-second clock applies in any situation where you care about tracking time on that scale.

A thief can disable a trap, pick a lock, and still move 30 feet, all in 6 seconds. If the enemy wizard has a tower with 14 locks and 10 traps, then you can get in and out in almost half the time.

 

[redrick]

When your thief picks up the Healer feat and uses it as a bonus action to heal someone it will pay off big

Haha, sure, but I doubt my dirtbag climb-in-through-the-window thief would pick up the healer feat. I want the guy to be a team player, but I think his schtick would be more focused on the skullduggery than the healing. So, for instance, sneaking around back and picking the gaoler's pocket while the rest of the party is engaged in combat makes sense — climb over an obstacle at full speed, use sleight of hands as a bonus action, retreat into the shadows and use the hide action to remain undetected the whole time. That seems pretty thiefy and something supported by this class. Except -- that situation has never come up in my game.

Combat is an illusion. This isn't Final Fantasy, where there's a swoosh and suddenly everyone is in combat. The 6-second clock applies in any situation where you care about tracking time on that scale.

A thief can disable a trap, pick a lock, and still move 30 feet, all in 6 seconds. If the enemy wizard has a tower with 14 locks and 10 traps, then you can get in and out in almost half the time.

Good point! What are some examples of this in actual use in games you have played in? Because, again, I'm not questioning its theoretical applicability, I'm just asking, in the course of an adventure that hasn't been custom tailored to the thief subclass, how do you find ways to use it that are fun and interesting?

This isn't a question of creating the optimal build. It's more just a question of how folks have creatively applied this feature to common situations in their campaigns.

 

[Charles Rampant]

Climbing is usually really fun - you can be up on the roof and causing trouble in the first round of combat. Fast Hands I've also seen used creatively - great for pouring healing potions down throats, disarming traps while drawing weapons, and the like.

 

[redrick]

Climbing is usually really fun - you can be up on the roof and causing trouble in the first round of combat. Fast Hands I've also seen used creatively - great for pouring healing potions down throats, disarming traps while drawing weapons, and the like.

Oh yeah, administering a healing potion as a bonus action. That is a good point. Not exactly skullduggery, but still a routine situation that doesn't require an additional feat to use.

I guess my current campaign hasn't seen a lot of in-town action where running along the roof is an option. I should add that. And I should add more ropes and ladders. We don't have a thief, but, again, I think at least every few sessions, there should be a moment where the players think, "man, if only we had a ..." And then, a few encounters later, the players can think, "thank God our sorcerer can drop a 40-foot fireball in a room that reliably does 40+ points of damage and knocks out an army of 12 orcs even with a save."

 

[Thyrwyn]

My thief fights short sword & dagger. He uses Disengage to move to attack an already engaged enemy (more sneak attacks), Sleight of Hand to steal daggers or short swords from enemies (if I've thrown mine and have a free hand), and, if I need to, use Dash and Hide in the same turn to move 60' around a corner and get out of sight.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I see Fast Hands as designed for stealing someone blind while conversing with them (cinematic fantasy trope), but also useful for strewing caltrops/ball bearings for "free" during combat.

 

[redrick]

but also useful for strewing caltrops/ball bearings for "free" during combat.

Ok, yeah, I guess I was forgetting about just how much could be done with "interact with an object". Not a lot of objects get interacted with in my game, I guess. But I could see how this would basically boil down to, "you can do anything with the in-game world that doesn't involve directly engaging an opponent (unless it's covered under a sleight of hands trick) as a bonus action." So, while you probably wouldn't be able to trip or blind or otherwise disadvantage the opponent on your current turn (to set up the ever-coveted sneak attack), you could do all sorts of things to hopefully set your opponent up for advantage next turn, while still keeping your action to do something else. I guess setting up traps would probably be covered under "interacting with an object", so maybe you could try something like stringing a trip-wire while an opponent is distracted, or out of sight, and then throwing a dagger at him in an attempt to lure him into charging you and falling flat on his face. (What ogre wouldn't give up on the heavily armored fighter in front of him to charge the little guy in leather armor who just threw a dagger at his back?)

Cool, thanks, guys. I'm seeing some ways that the player can proactively create situations where this is useful (and fun) in game, rather than waiting for that one encounter in a room full orcs, ropes and beartraps. I'm looking forward to getting some mileage out of the character.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I see Fast Hands as designed for stealing someone blind while conversing with them (cinematic fantasy trope), but also useful for strewing caltrops/ball bearings for "free" during combat.

Can't you also do the typical thief thing, from every video game? Pick an enemy's pocket when you go to make a melee attack.

I guess that's less useful, since you'll get all of its loot when you kill it anyway. It would make it easier to steal an extra share for yourself, though.