D&D 5E How does “optimization” change the game?

[Neonchameleon]

I think discussions about what fits what category probably belong in another thread, but it does highlight my point that they are arguable.

Regarding Optimized(silly), it sure could be there, but I'm not sure that it serves a purpose.

Pun-Pun. The World Shattering Hulking Hurler. The Diplomancer. Some other pure nonsense including this 50 point GURPS advantage that woudn't be used at the table.

One category I use that you missed is "Naively Optimised" which is someone who's not gone delving through splatbooks but wants to play a synergetic character. For example someone who pictures a fighter in plate armour with a two handed sword so picked STR as their highest stat, the Great Weapon fighting style, Champion fighter archetype, and as their first three ASIs picked strength twice and the Great Weapon Master feat because they all looked like superficially good options.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Pun-Pun. The World Shattering Hulking Hurler. The Diplomancer. Some other pure nonsense including this 50 point GURPS advantage that woudn't be used at the table.

Y'know, I have no idea where I imagined a '[5e]' at the beginning of this thread title. Yes, you are right. There are man, many massively top-end Optimization builds which most playgroups would deem too silly to allow. I simply haven't seen any in 5e (excepting maybe Simulacrum-Wish which I think was so obvious that everyone collectively just agreed wasn't worth discussing most of the time).

One category I use that you missed is "Naively Optimised" which is someone who's not gone delving through splatbooks but wants to play a synergetic character. For example someone who pictures a fighter in plate armour with a two handed sword so picked STR as their highest stat, the Great Weapon fighting style, Champion fighter archetype, and as their first three ASIs picked strength twice and the Great Weapon Master feat because they all looked like superficially good options.

Hmm. That's a good point. I would have put that in non-optimized, but I can see why you might want a different category. I guess it depends on whether intention matters.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Y'know, I have no idea where I imagined a '[5e]' at the beginning of this thread title. Yes, you are right. There are man, many massively top-end Optimization builds which most playgroups would deem too silly to allow. I simply haven't seen any in 5e (excepting maybe Simulacrum-Wish which I think was so obvious that everyone collectively just agreed wasn't worth discussing most of the time).

It's in the tags And I'd consider the Coffeelock also fits. It's definitely a category - and one 5e is fortunately fairly short of.

 

[Willie the Duck]

It's in the tags And I'd consider the Coffeelock also fits. It's definitely a category - and one 5e is fortunately fairly short of.

Looking again not-on-a-tiny-phone and you are right. Okay, excellent, Diplomancer and weird GURPS things are outside-of-scope.

 

[Ogre Mage]

I played with a badly unoptimized party and found it frustrating and horrible. We had an 11 strength, 13 con fighter who insisted on fighting with a longsword and was constantly going down like the old woman in Life Alert commercials ("I've fallen and I can't get up!"). There was as cleric with 11 strength and 14 wisdom (at 5th level) who took melee-based feats but did not fight in melee and never healed. There was a sorceress whose primary tactic was to run up into melee and cast burning hands even though she had no defenses other than a decent dexterity. Our 5th level party struggled mightily against CR 5 encounters. It turned what should have been modest challenges into very hard encounters. I hated it. The party made me feel like I was a member of the Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions or Seattle Mariners.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I played with a badly unoptimized party and found it frustrating and horrible. We had an 11 strength, 13 con fighter who insisted on fighting with a longsword and was constantly going down like the old woman in Life Alert commercials ("I've fallen and I can't get up!"). There was as cleric with 11 strength and 14 wisdom (at 5th level) who took melee-based feats but did not fight in melee and never healed. There was a sorceress whose primary tactic was to run up into melee and cast burning hands even though she had no defenses other than a decent dexterity. Our 5th level party struggled mightily against CR 5 encounters. It turned what should have been modest challenges into very hard encounters. I hated it. The party made me feel like I was a member of the Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions or Seattle Mariners.

Respectfully that does not sound like “not optimized” it sound “craptimized”

I mean poor play trumps everything.

sounds unfun. Assuming very new players?

 

[Ogre Mage]

Respectfully that does not sound like “not optimized” it sound “craptimized”

I mean poor play trumps everything.

sounds unfun. Assuming very new players?

This is an old story from my D&D 3.X days (2001-2006). I think the sorceress player was a new player. But the other two were actually "experienced" (I use the term loosely) players. The fighter player is actually still a good friend of mine today. Back then I think he was only interested in "role-play" and had zero interest in trying to optimize. But we are currently playing in a Savage Worlds game and he is now excellent at building optimized characters. He is very different player from how he was in 2003-04.

As for the cleric player, I was told he did a lot of LSD. If so that explains a great deal.

 

[jayoungr]

 

[niklinna]

One of my characters recently acquired a ring of fire resistance. I'm probably taking more fire damage than I would have otherwise because I'm gleefully charging into those situations. (However, the net result might be less overall fire damage taken by the party.)

Back in my vanilla World of Warcraft days raiding in Molten Core, I got an addon that let me switch equipped gear on the fly. I put on all my +fire gear for the core hound packs and used Hellfire (damages caster as much as targets) instead of Rain of Fire. The healers gently yelled at me to never ever do that again. But I was OPTIMIZED! For fire damage.

By the by, I think any time one uses that word, they should add "for <whatever>". The word's meaning is far too meta/broad.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

This is an old story from my D&D 3.X days (2001-2006). I think the sorceress player was a new player. But the other two were actually "experienced" (I use the term loosely) players. The fighter player is actually still a good friend of mine today. Back then I think he was only interested in "role-play" and had zero interest in trying to optimize. But we are currently playing in a Savage Worlds game and he is now excellent at building optimized characters. He is very different player from how he was in 2003-04.

As for the cleric player, I was told he did a lot of LSD. If so that explains a great deal.

That’s funny!

we had someone at our table who over indulged in…several things the night before the game. He said that his character screamed and ran from the dungeon.

without missing a beat he ran out of my house—-literally!

It’s was so crazy! I mean I have played hungover and maybe a little drunk but that took the cake!