D&D 5E How fantastic are natural 1's?

[MikalC]

A rogue PC in my Curse of Strahd campaign has a magical quiver. It adds poison damage to each arrow, but the flipside is that when the player rolls a 1, the whole quiver explodes into a swarm of poisonous snakes. This has happened twice so far, always in the midst of massive fights.

Wow that sounds like a horrible item. It’s literally a “add crappy damage type to weapon with a 5% chance for it to EXPLODE every time you use it!”

I would literally sell it. If I can’t sell it I’d throw it in the trash.

 

[Oofta]

Regarding all this talk about who critical failures affect the most...

In my experience no one rolls more attacks, saves, or ability checks in a game session than the DM. As long as NPCs/monsters play by the same rules, fumbles end up benefiting the players. Sure, that's spread out over several encounters but it still means the DM is the one at the table most likely to fumble.

But on the PC side, it's still the melee fighters (with monks a close second) that get far more penalized than any other class. My issue is with a rule that specifically harms some builds but not others. I don't see your point.

 

[Arvok]

But on the PC side, it's still the melee fighters (with monks a close second) that get far more penalized than any other class. My issue is with a rule that specifically harms some builds but not others. I don't see your point.

My argument is that they don't get penalized more. Sure, they might have more of a chance to roll more fumbles (which is more than compensated if you're playing a Champion by the improved critical feature), but they are more likely to be in the thick of battle fighting hordes of minions. Each one of those minions has a chance to drop his sword, wound one of its own allies, fall prone, or whatever else fumbles might cause in a game. This gives the melee fighter more chances to take advantage (sometimes literally) of those fumbles.

 

[zarionofarabel]

But on the PC side, it's still the melee fighters (with monks a close second) that get far more penalized than any other class. My issue is with a rule that specifically harms some builds but not others. I don't see your point.

Perhaps for the fun of having something unusual happen from time to time, instead of it always being predictable. Also, aren't casters penalized more than non-casters because of the fact that non-casters main ability is infinite whereas casters abilities are finite?

 

[Oofta]

My argument is that they don't get penalized more. Sure, they might have more of a chance to roll more fumbles (which is more than compensated if you're playing a Champion by the improved critical feature), but they are more likely to be in the thick of battle fighting hordes of minions. Each one of those minions has a chance to drop his sword, wound one of its own allies, fall prone, or whatever else fumbles might cause in a game. This gives the melee fighter more chances to take advantage (sometimes literally) of those fumbles.

A high level fighter is far more likely to fumble than any other build because their damage output depends on getting more attacks than any other class. If the enemy also fumbles now and then, that benefits the entire party.

Besides it's just idiotic that someone who is supposed to be the pinnacle of melee excellence is falling over every combat like they were trained by the Three Stooges. You do you but I will never play in another game with a 1 on an attack roll resulting in a fumble.

 

[MikalC]

My argument is that they don't get penalized more. Sure, they might have more of a chance to roll more fumbles (which is more than compensated if you're playing a Champion by the improved critical feature), but they are more likely to be in the thick of battle fighting hordes of minions. Each one of those minions has a chance to drop his sword, wound one of its own allies, fall prone, or whatever else fumbles might cause in a game. This gives the melee fighter more chances to take advantage (sometimes literally) of those fumbles.

In the end the PCs will be rolling more d20s than any single npc. Higher level fighters most of all.
It’s stupid to assume that the greatest warrior in the world, the most masterful weapon user.... throws his sword comically at least once every 30 seconds of combat.
You can feel it doesn’t penalize players all you like. You’re wrong.

 

[Oofta]

Perhaps for the fun of having something unusual happen from time to time, instead of it always being predictable. Also, aren't casters penalized more than non-casters because of the fact that non-casters main ability is infinite whereas casters abilities are finite?

Is every caster a wild mage? Because that could be "fun" as well.

 

[Oofta]

I'm just imagining the fight between Westly and Inigo in The Princess Bride* where they're stumbling over each other, tripping on a loose rock, dropping their weapons. No. Just no.

I'm sure fumbles are great fun if you never play a fighter. BTW there was a post upthread about a dragon fumbling and being reduced to 1 HP and I just face palmed. Really? A fumble could reduce someone with triple digit HP to 1 because of 1 bad role? I'd hate that game and it wouldn't matter if it was my PC or a dragon. It's just stupid and poor game design. YMMV.

*If you haven't seen The Princess Bride I hereby revoke your geek card.

 

[Flamestrike]

My argument is that they don't get penalized more.

But they are though. And that penalty gets worse as they advance in level, with high level fighters routinely throwing away their swords, stabbing themselves, or tripping over imaginary deceased turtles.

Fumble rules penalise martials more than casters, and hammer Fighters and Monks (ironically the most skilled of the martials) the most.

You need to limit them to only be applicable to the first roll of any turn for them to even come close to parity.

 

[Arvok]

But they are though. And that penalty gets worse as they advance in level, with high level fighters routinely throwing away their swords, stabbing themselves, or tripping over imaginary deceased turtles.

Fumble rules penalise martials more than casters, and hammer Fighters and Monks (ironically the most skilled of the martials) the most.

You need to limit them to only be applicable to the first roll of any turn for them to even come close to parity.

Did you read the rest of my post? Fighters and other front line melee combatants are more likely to benefit from the fumbles of their enemies. Also, most the fumble systems I've used over the years either require a confirmation roll (sort of the inverse of 3e's criti confirmations) or the DM simply nerfs the penalty if the outcome seems ridiculous based on the relative strengths of the combatants.

How often do you people roll natural 1s, anyway? Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it seems like a lot of posters here are terrified of rolling 1s like it happens way more than 5% of the time. Maybe you should buy some new dice.