D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[GMforPowergamers]

Cedric isn't the hero.

That's the difference now, you the hero don't die when you fail as the main lose conditions. Your friends and pets.... take the hit.

spoiler warning... tell that to NED!!! he was the hero of the first book

 

[tetrasodium]

And here I disagree.
If for you, rolling encounters and linking them together no longer makes them random anymore, then we have a deep problems of concept. Linking random encounters does not make them less random. No prep is done. Of course writing the process is way longer than actually doing it. The art of random encounters during travel is to find a way to fit a good narrative. As you resolve one, the other will fit the rest. No planning is done.

The problem in writing the process is that it makes them appear preplanned. But it is not so. Each will resolve at its own pace, in sequence or not depending on the spur of the moment. Describing what will happen is describing the process and not the actual speed and prep time. Speed will be very fast as they are random encounters but prep time equals zero. It is entirely an improvisational process. Linking them together is the art of the DM. What is random can become, in appearance, an adventure but it is in no way prepared. There is a big difference between a prepared dungeon and the random encounters in there. Even single encounter can be woven in the narrative.

A random encounter of 5 orcs is rolled when the players are coming out of the Caves of Chaos. No side is surprise. What do you do? They just appear or do you spin a tale as to why they are here. I would do it this way: "As you are walking out of the orcish caves, a group of five orcs are coming toward you with deer parts on their shoulders. As soon as they see you, the deer parts are dropped and they draw their weapons. Two of them draw bows, the other three unsheathe their swords. What do you do?"

Here we have only one encounter. Although it is random, it appears to be scripted. And all random encounters should appear to be scripted to help weave the narrative, giving the impression that the action is fluid and integrated into the story. And since I apply noise and combat as a random encounter initiator if made outside; the combat itself might trigger an other roll. Let's say they did trigger the roll and a bear is rolled. How do you weave it into the story?
"A bear is attracted by the sound of the battle and comes to investigate.The beast growl at you, stands up on its hind leg and behave menacingly."
If I want the combat, it might fight or maybe a player will toss a part of the orc's deer at the bear? Thus negating the bear encounter completely. It is by adding small details to the random encounters that these encounters do not feel like simply combat for combat.

If you go: Ok 5 orcs were on their way back to the cave and attack. Boooooooring...
And right after that: A bear is attracted by the noise of battle. It doesn't beat your passive perception. Roll for initiative... again, boooring. If DMs are doing random encounters this way, no wonder they feel random encounters break the narrative. I would be against them too If I were to make them in such a way.

That's all well and good, but the giant elephant in the room with that example is how trivial it is for the players to hit the reset button on those 6-8 encounters by saying "no. We are not taking another step. Let's take a long rest here" at many points in it... It's not been a full day says the gm ? "we will wait" they say.

 

[Cadence]

That's all well and good, but the giant elephant in the room with that example is how trivial it is for the players to hit the reset button on those 6-8 encounters by saying "no. We are not taking another step. Let's take a long rest here" at many points in it... It's not been a full day says the gm ? "we will wait" they say.

There's always how 13th age handles it -- the day ends when the requisite number of encounters have occurred, and doesn't care what the big flaming ball (or flaming chariot, or whatever) in the sky is doing.

That seems even worse to me than the monsters going to the players if the players won't go to the monsters.

 

[Helldritch]

Look at the width at that Elmore blade again.

Again, find me something along Gatz's sword in modern D&D art.

About the width of a hand. Just like a typical Zweihander. Unless the mystical halo around you got you confused, the sword Elmore depicted is perfectly normal. The sword of "Zangetsu" is taller and got a wider blade than his head! And he can weild it one hand...

Almost like an exaggerated artform inspired by Disney might include exaggerated characteristics.

Let me tell you how stupid ancient fertility statues are for their big hips and bellies.

Well, at that time it made sense. Too skinny and too tigth around the hips and the lady might die in childbirth. A big belly in ancient times was a sign of health and wealth because it meant you could eat all your fill. And I would not say what you said in front of a Sumo. No sir!

 

[Helldritch]

That's all well and good, but the giant elephant in the room with that example is how trivial it is for the players to hit the reset button on those 6-8 encounters by saying "no. We are not taking another step. Let's take a long rest here" at many points in it... It's not been a full day says the gm ? "we will wait" they say.

There's always how 13th age handles it -- the day ends when the requisite number of encounters have occurred, and doesn't care what the big flaming ball (or flaming chariot, or whatever) in the sky is doing.
That seems even worse to me than the monsters going to the players if the players won't go to the monsters.

And again, these are random encounters. If the players do not move, they will happen anyways. Until the set number of encounter is reached. It would be easy enough to fit this into a nice narrative too. Wait and suffer. And I am devious enough to have that big adult green dragon come in the middle of the night, dispel the hut and breathe a few times on the players for not acting like the heroes they are supposed to be. If the players do not care for the narrative, two strikes for them.

The worst solution would be full gritty realism where a short rest is a day and a long rest is a week in a safe heaven. And nope, Tiny Hut would not qualify as a safe heaven. The duration is too short for that. At some point, no system is perfect. You choose what fits your style the most. It works perfectly fine for quite a number of table that are doing the same as I. Try it.

 

[overgeeked]

That's all well and good, but the giant elephant in the room with that example is how trivial it is for the players to hit the reset button on those 6-8 encounters by saying "no. We are not taking another step. Let's take a long rest here" at many points in it... It's not been a full day says the gm ? "we will wait" they say.

I’m coming around on this for modern D&D. Instead of fighting it, lean into it. 4E and 5E are fantasy superhero soap opera games. So embrace it. The DM still has infinite dragons to throw at the PCs. The players stop dead to rest. Great. Pile up the in-world dramatic consequences and beef up the next encounters. Instead of fighting how the players want to play, work with it. They only want a five-minute workday? Cool. Give them an entire adventuring day in that five minutes. There’s this weird assumption that the players can game the system but the DM somehow cannot react accordingly. That’s nonsense.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I’m coming around on this for modern D&D. Instead of fighting it, lean into it. 4E and 5E are fantasy superhero soap opera games. So embrace it. The DM still has infinite dragons to throw at the PCs. The players stop dead to rest. Great. Pile up the in-world dramatic consequences and beef up the next encounters. Instead of fighting how the players want to play, work with it. They only want a five-minute workday? Cool. Give them an entire adventuring day in that five minutes. There’s this weird assumption that the players can game the system but the DM somehow cannot react accordingly. That’s nonsense.

Been saying this thing for awhile, it gets little traction. Current edition isn't last edition, and shouldn't be expected to play the same way.

 

[Vaalingrade]

4E and 5E are fantasy superhero soap opera games.

Except the part where there's no superheroism at all in the core of either and people are just using superhero as a dumb buzzword.

 

[Helldritch]

I’m coming around on this for modern D&D. Instead of fighting it, lean into it. 4E and 5E are fantasy superhero soap opera games. So embrace it. The DM still has infinite dragons to throw at the PCs. The players stop dead to rest. Great. Pile up the in-world dramatic consequences and beef up the next encounters. Instead of fighting how the players want to play, work with it. They only want a five-minute workday? Cool. Give them an entire adventuring day in that five minutes. There’s this weird assumption that the players can game the system but the DM somehow cannot react accordingly. That’s nonsense.

And my players will not try to game the system as the system will game them in return. As I said, it can be done organically like a mini story or it can become mechanical. The only thing that is certain os that if they want a 5MWD, they will get the equivalent of 6 to 8 encounters in a very short time. The 5MWD will surely be their doom. Been there done that in 3.xed and never will it happen again in my games.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I almost have 'Weird D&D Grudge' Bingo.

Say MtG or Diablo.

Say it!

Am I wrong?
And Diablo 1 and 2 are excellent D&D games