D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Helldritch]

I don't think its unrealistic or table specific to say that healing, stabilizing and revivifying are readily available in 5E.

Add to that death saves, and it's clear that ,relative to earlier editions, it's hard to permanently die in 5E.

Yest it is. And No it is not. The whack-a-mole syndrome that started in 4ed is rampant in 5ed if the DM does nothing against it. The only solution I found to stop the whack-a-mole, is to literally kill the fallen character as soon as a character is getting right up from being downed. Intelligent enemies will go out of their ways to kill a fallen character/foe as they have seen a foe fall and get back up. As long as the whack-a-mole is not started, no problems. Once a player starts the whack-a-mole, tough luck. I will kill.

And guess what? The play of my players improved substantially. Both in Role Play and in Tactical Play. They do not take chances anymore. At half HP, some are using the Dodge action to reduce the possibility of being hit and receive healing before too late. Some in other threads told me I was metagaming. BS! I say! If I were to see a fallen foe get back up and kill a team mate, you can bet your shirt that I would double tap for good measure. No hesitations at all. 5ed can be deadly, unfortunately, it takes a DM a bit on the adversarial side for some. For us, (my players and I) the whack-a-mole was breaking the verisimilitude of the world. We might be wrong, but at least we find our games, with such a high lethality, to be way more interesting. In some games, I litteraly see some players climbing on their chair and getting nervous as the fight is going against them. And when the beat the odds, they cheer up! They won. Victory was not handed to them on a silver platter. They had to work hard to get their victory and they remember them for a long time.

 

[AnotherGuy]

My feeling is healing should stabilise an unconscious character and that is all. This eliminates the (1) whack-a-mole issue and (2) having NPCs always double-tapping fallen PCs.

 

[billd91]

My feeling is healing should stabilise an unconscious character and that is all. This eliminates the (1) whack-a-mole issue and (2) having NPCs always double-tapping fallen PCs.

That would be a bit more in line with 1e as well, if that's your jam.

 

[AnotherGuy]

That would be a bit more in line with 1e as well, if that's your jam.

I didn't know. 1e had 0hp = dead and I remember an optional rule of 0 to -10. Maybe it worked for the latter.
Anyways it sounds workable for my table, I'm thinking of incorporating it.

 

[beancounter]

Yest it is. And No it is not. The whack-a-mole syndrome that started in 4ed is rampant in 5ed if the DM does nothing against it. The only solution I found to stop the whack-a-mole, is to literally kill the fallen character as soon as a character is getting right up from being downed. Intelligent enemies will go out of their ways to kill a fallen character/foe as they have seen a foe fall and get back up. As long as the whack-a-mole is not started, no problems. Once a player starts the whack-a-mole, tough luck. I will kill.

And guess what? The play of my players improved substantially. Both in Role Play and in Tactical Play. They do not take chances anymore. At half HP, some are using the Dodge action to reduce the possibility of being hit and receive healing before too late. Some in other threads told me I was metagaming. BS! I say! If I were to see a fallen foe get back up and kill a team mate, you can bet your shirt that I would double tap for good measure. No hesitations at all. 5ed can be deadly, unfortunately, it takes a DM a bit on the adversarial side for some. For us, (my players and I) the whack-a-mole was breaking the verisimilitude of the world. We might be wrong, but at least we find our games, with such a high lethality, to be way more interesting. In some games, I litteraly see some players climbing on their chair and getting nervous as the fight is going against them. And when the beat the odds, they cheer up! They won. Victory was not handed to them on a silver platter. They had to work hard to get their victory and they remember them for a long time.

Yea, an intelligent monster is going to attempt to eliminate the biggest threat, but unless the monster does an insta-kill with massive damage to the PC in one turn, one of the targets allies can simply heal or stabilize them on their turn. Then the target can either run away to drink a healing potion, or rejoins the fight.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It's more that PCs only "die" in TPKs, Heroic Sacrifices, Player idiocy, or DM double taps in 4e and 5e.

Gone is "Whoops Tommy's dead. Sad, Onward" where the survivor either continues or runs for escape.

Especially in 5e. PCs don't "die" individually. They either all die or someone is left behind. No flukes. 90% of deaths are wipes, story moments, or stories of wipes.

That's generally true in PF2e also, by the by. And as far as I can tell, 13th Age leans in that direction, too. Random individual death is a much rarer beast than in the past, with a few specific exceptions (there are a couple monsters in both the above games that can make it more likely, but they aren't that common).

 

[AnotherGuy]

Yea, an intelligent monster is going to attempt to eliminate the biggest threat, but unless the monster does an insta-kill with massive damage to the PC in one turn, one of the targets allies can simply heal or stabilize them on their turn. Then the target can either run away to drink a healing potion, or rejoins the fight.

Not unless the villain follows up with several more attacks on the fallen PC before the PC has the opportunity of being healed. Each attack on a fallen PC causes one automatic failed death save.

 

[beancounter]

Not unless the villain follows up with several more attacks on the fallen PC before the PC has the opportunity of being healed. Each attack on a fallen PC causes one automatic failed death save.

Well yes, it depends on the circumstances and the number of minions, and whether the minions are occupied with other members in the party, but if the villain is fighting a party of 4, the villain will have to wait at least 3 turns before attacking the fallen PC again.

By then, the fallen PC will have plenty of opportunity to recover.

 

[Mournblade94]

The Aesthetic has definitely changed. So has the player philosophies. Rule of Cool is much more prevalent, and I had a newer player leave because I wouldn't let them accomplish something if it violated the rules (not in a dramatic way, just not the game want to play.) She played in a previous campaign where the DM was very Rule of Kewl.

Im noticing the fan art is very often modern aesthetics when there is no armor involved. Instead of Tabards and Tunics, its Hoodies and Vests, and trousers that are drawn like Jeans.

This is mostly what has kept me away from adopting 5e totally. The aesthetic is not what I want. It was back in the original 5e days. I think it started to change after Mordenkainen's guide. I think that is the part where the aesthetic took a radical shift. I loved 5e until Mordenkainen, then it became a game I wanted to retreat from. I still DM 5e but I have no sources after Mordenkainen that I even use.

My orcs are evil creations, alignment is tangible, and the background is Medieval. Not everyone likes it, but the people in my game do. When I don't want to use alignment, I use another system entirely. But playing D&D I am fully in the classic Aesthetic.

 

[overgeeked]

Not unless the villain follows up with several more attacks on the fallen PC before the PC has the opportunity of being healed. Each attack on a fallen PC causes one automatic failed death save.

Right. So to recap, to kill a PC the monster (or group of monsters) has to: 1) eliminate all the PC's hit points; 2) work through 3 death saves despite any and all healing (any of which will reset the count to zero); 3) do all that without the PC's party healing them through the damage/death saves, and; 4) do all that despite being wildly undertuned compared to the PCs (as in lower AC, lower hp, lower damage, etc). Let's look at healing. Healing Word, Revivify, Cure Wounds, paladin's Lay on Hands, Aasimar healing, fighter second wind, Healer feat with a healer's kit, etc. Most or all of that is available at low levels. So, basically, everyone at the table has to agree that a given character's time has come before a PC can die.