How is FR changing with 4E?

[ProfessorCirno]

Remember in the 90's, when every new artist decided to make a comic about how THEY think their favorite super heroes should act, and they all made no sense and clashed horribly with everything that had been said, done, and written up to that point?

Yeah.

To put it in more perspective, Tyr - you know, the god of honor and trust - decides Helm - you know, the god of loyalty and honesty - is lying to him. So Tyr kills him.

Meanwhile, everywhere interesting in the Realms is gone, but NO IT'S COOL, THE SWORD COAST IS STILL THE SAME. THAT PLACE ISN'T BORING OR GENERIC AT ALL. IT'S COOL GUYS!

I didn't even like the Realms, but they didn't deserve this.

 

[Mkhaiwati]

My understanding, having read the various articles over the last 12 months on WotC's site, is that the reason for the time jump is to separate the novels from the game. Throughout it's history just about every book written was viewed as cannon and therefore had an impact on the game. The problem was that a lot of DMs and Players didn't like the way that NPCs dominated the world so they didn't play it. The time jump allows WotC to continue novels without impacting the world as they will (and have already started) write the novels to fill in the time gap while allowing DMs and players to play within the world and not feel obligated to follow cannon since it no longer applies.

Swordmage, the latest book, is set fairly close to the end of the 100 year jump. Other series will be set after the timeline is advanced. They had said that no books were going to be chronicling the Spellplague, but I noticed Steve Schend's Blackstaff Tower is set to be close to the end of the jump, with other events in that book during that 100 year span. Salvatore's series is also set in that 100 year span, with Drizzt writing a forward from the time after the 100 year jump.

I have heard that the intent is to not do the major Realm's Shaking Events after the 100 year jump, but novels are still going to be published pushing the timeline forward. Yep, still can't get away from the novels driving the setting. The meta-plot still exists.

 

[Runestar]

I am okay with npcs being bumped off, if there is a credible reason behind it. Take mystra's death for instance. Shar and Cyric are much weaker than her, much more so on her own plane. Both would never have been able to enter her domain undetected, much less hope to stand a chance against here. It is this sort of sloppy and illogical scenarios that make me mad.

Just imagine if DC suddenly decided to announce that Batman was dead, and that he died because he slipped in the bathroom and cracked his skull on the toilet bowl. It is just that lame and anticlimatic.

 

[Rechan]

How is FR changing with 4e?

Elminster will get less tail.

I only know the Realms via having read the novels back in the day. It would have been easier had they just slagged everything and started from the ground up. Changed the face a little. Pulled an about face in some areas, turned the Harpers a little Big Brother, put the Zhents on defense, etc.

Keeping Drizzt around... They should have officially put a bullet in that elf. Why it has to be "Novel = Canon", I don't know. The Big NPCs are fan wank as it is, anyways.

 

[Fedifensor]

Keeping Drizzt around... They should have officially put a bullet in that elf. Why it has to be "Novel = Canon", I don't know. The Big NPCs are fan wank as it is, anyways.

You don't shoot the goose that lays the golden eggs. You may not like the character, but Drizzt novels = money for WotC. At least he's not an epic-level character like Elminster and the others.

This seems to be to be at least as big as the 2E shakeup, when they decided to have all the gods walking around, killed off several, promoted some mortals to replace them...with the fans going, "What the @#$@!"

I suppose we'll get the whole story when the FR book comes up, but already I can tell that the huge FR map I mounted on the wall is about to be useless to me, as they decided to change the landscape...again. They also killed Mystra...again. They decided to mess with the Weave...again. I understand wanting to make the Realms 'compatible' with 4E, but the whole place is like an Etch-A-Sketch these days.

 

[Rechan]

You don't shoot the goose that lays the golden eggs. You may not like the character, but Drizzt novels = money for WotC. At least he's not an epic-level character like Elminster and the others.

What I mean is, why does Drizzt have to be a part of The Official Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, as opposed to... some books set in Forgotten Realms? Why are the novels anchored to the Setting so firmly?

 

[Runestar]

What happens in the novels are supposed to be indicative of what transgresses in the realms. Part of the allure (and now, curse, apparently) is that it is an organic setting that is constantly changing and being updated, with new npcs entering and exiting, and all these are being told by novels. So there really isn't difference.

 

[Ipissimus]

The thing with these iconic NPCs is that they sell the setting.

For example, Mordenkainen is, for a lot of people, the embodiment of Greyhawk. He is a hero of hard fantasy, a morally ambiguous anti-hero. In keeping with the low->mid magic setting, he's powerful but not over the top.

By contrast, FR is power fantasy. Elminster and Drizzt are scary powerful, over the top, characters that represent the high magic, high power, style of game that a lot of people enjoy. Of course, that makes FR it's own worst enemy. After all, if Elminster and Drizzt are the most badass characters out there, how can anyone create a more badass character without being a total munchkin?

Now, I don't believe that all power gamers are munchkins. I've played with any number of power gamers who worked well in the party and never overshadowed any of the other PCs. The thrill for them (and myself, if I'm honest) is facing down an undead army with nothing but a spork and emerging bloodied but victorious. That being said, I also love the setting and strive to have my character 'live' in the environment.

So, here's where I think FR loses out. It's meant to appeal to the player who wants his character to grow up to be a Chosen of Mystra but he can't do that because all the spots are taken and there aren't any clear rules on doing it. And, on top of that, there's plenty of space for the people who prefer a lower-powered setting and absolutely loathe power fantasy and who want all the high level NPCs gone. So, really, the fanbase has FR coming and going.

As for the changes in 4e, it's a mixed bag. I'm ok with the Spellplague. Magic is such a huge part of the Realms that 4e made drastic changes to the setting a necessity, so I think they've done the best they can with a bad situation. On the other hand, I liked the fact that there was a God(ess) for everyone in FR. More options = more opportunities.

 

[Dedekind]

One of the design goals was to make it more accessible to a new DM and new players. Considering the large amount of material available for FR in past editions and books, I can see it being very intimidating to gain mastery over. So, when people talk about the demotion/destruction of many gods, they are referring to shrinking the FR cosmology from 100+ deities to about 25. I can understand how this tweaks some noses, but, for the new DM 125 deities is probably 100 too many

 

[Khairn]

One of the design goals was to make it more accessible to a new DM and new players. Considering the large amount of material available for FR in past editions and books, I can see it being very intimidating to gain mastery over. So, when people talk about the demotion/destruction of many gods, they are referring to shrinking the FR cosmology from 100+ deities to about 25. I can understand how this tweaks some noses, but, for the new DM 125 deities is probably 100 too many

I always had a hard time understanding this type argument.

By the logic used above, FR GM's have been forced to learn and use all the gods in their games, and according to some claims I've read, all the FR lore that has been published as well. And that this mandatory content is keeping players away.

A GM has control over where his campaign is based and what races, classes, gods and storylines are included in his game. This is a core paradigm of any campaign. Basic table-top gaming 101. So given that, I really don't understand how a large amount of optional Gods, NPC's and history that is already in the GM's hands to keep or toss, is such a problem that it requires deleting that very same content.

Dedekind, I know you were only referring to the number of deities in FR. I added the additional examples about lore and overall content as the same logic you brought up is also being used by some 4E-FR fans as the reason why FR content needed to be pruned.

It just doesn't make sense to me.