How many levels of Prestige Classes do you prefer?

[Deadguy]

What Role the Prestige Class?

A lot depends on what the Prestige Class is meant to achieve. I have always averred that there are really two types of Prestige Class. One is the 'organisation' class, like the Mage of the Arcane Order. The PrC's are the results of the training and ethos that membership of that organisation grants. The other is the 'specialist' class, typified by the Devoted Defencer or Duellist. These are ways of producing a highly specialised version of a core class (e.g. Alienist, a Wizard or Sorcerer who has pursued forbidden learning), or a way of intimately hybridising two core classes (c.f. Arcane Trickster - a specialist Wizard-Rogue).

The reason I raise the distinction is that the two purposes tend to require different numbers of PrC levels. I feel personally that organisation PrC's should try and have only a few levels, so that the PC retains an existence and identity not solely defined by that organisation. it might even be wise to lay down stipulations that stop a PC from advancing striaght through the PrC, but instead encourage them to alternate levels with original class(es). Remind the PC that he is more than just a member of Group X, he is a person too!

On the other hand specialist PrC's benefit from a larger level count. This encourages the player to dedicate the character to the specialism, helping justify the extra 'unusual' abilities. Being a Duellist isn't a matter of joining a Fencing School, it's a whle way of thnking about how combat should work and how life should be lived.

Okay, shoot this down, folks!

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

Actually, I like the distinction you make between organizations and specialists.


I think I tend to agree with you.


Thanks for your input!

Taren Nighteyes

 

[Cor Azer]

I mostly agree with Deadguy, except that I don't pigeonhole organization prestige classes into being around 5 levels, nor specialization prestige classes at 10 levels.

Prestige classes should have as many levels as necessary to complete the concept, as Darklance said.

 

[Deadguy]

Prestige classes should have as many levels as necessary to complete the concept, as Darklance said.

Actually I wouldn't disagree with that point. What I would say is 'Try not to build an Organisation concept that is divided across a large number of levels'. I admit the distinction is a fine one, but I hope you can understand why I would prefer the Organisation PrC to consider the PC's life outside of the organisation.

Putting it another way, encourage somewhat of a diversity amongst the Organisation's members rather than turn out a lot of little clones (which sort of happens if the PrC is divided across a lot of levels).

 

[Black Omega]

I personally much prefer Prestige Classes as something important, rather than a way to mix and match abilities. If you want to mix and match you may as well go with a classless system and don't bother pretending the classes have any prestige.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Deadguy summed up my feelings perfectly. Even if I didn't know what they were until I read his post.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I agree with almost all of what Deadguy says. In most cases, organization PrCs don't warrant 10 levels. There are exceptions, true, but most don't require that much to make the class distinctive and different enough from the core classes to be worth playing.

And for the specializations PrCs, in most cases 5 levels doesn't seem like enough of a commitment from the character (or the player) to fine tune the concept enough to reflect the necessary dedication.

 

[Ranger REG]

VARIES

It depends on the prestige class markup. While prestige class level's maximum limit is 10, it should vary depending on the concept and powers the prestige class is designed for. I do not like the idea that all prestige class should be 10 levels and only 10 levels.

 

[Tonguez]

For the sake of argument

No prestige classes

What do prestige classes really give that can't be gained by the right mix of multiclassing, feats, skills and roleplaying?

If Arcane trickster is a mix of Scorcerer & rogue - why not just a multiclassed scorcerer/rogue with the right feats/skills?

As to Organisations - membership of such should be roleplaying devices not a reason to generate a specific PrC so you can give your PC a powerboost

PrCs are often just a excercise in Munchkinism, good roleplaying is all one really needs...

 

[tenelo]

responding - for the sake of discussion

What do prestige classes really give that can't be gained by the right mix of multiclassing, feats, skills and roleplaying?

The obvious answer is something that you can't achieve with those ingredients. The flip answer is not meant to cause offense.

All th PrCs that I have seen and liked are the ones that do something new, rather than just something powerful. The one I'm aiming at in my current campaign is written by the DM, specifically for a plot reason. I let him know what I wanted from it - one specific power - and left the rest entirely up to him. The class he's written would probably not be suitable for any other campaign without tweaking, and possibly toning down a little, but it is balanced for the use it's going to have, which is why it's been created. It does something new (and, I agree quite powerful) for plot reasons.

The power it - eventually - grants, is the ability to spontaneously cast spells for a non-spontaneous caster. This is the ability I want for my Druid/Sorceror, the ability to pick my spells from the Druid spell list, and cast the appropriate one. This won't grant any more spells per day, just the flexibility to pick exactly the right one for the circumstance.

This is not something you can do, to that extent, with core classes, skills feats etc.

My two bits of fuel for the discussion.