• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

How much should it cost to make this item?

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
2 * 3 * 1,800gp = 10,800gp. Yep.

Compare it to just buying wands of CMW:

2 * 3 * 750gp = 4,500gp.

In other words, you'd have to use this item more than 120 times (for a total of 240d8+360 HP of healing) before it became more price effective than just buying wands.

It is, honestly, not as far out there as some people are making it out to be. :)

120 times? I'll go through that very fast:) The big thing to remember is the psycology of unlimited items. If you have a wand of CMW and you have 5 hps of damage, are you going to waste a charge on your wand? Probably not. But an unlimited item, gimmie gimmie!!

Another way to think about this, how many pearls of power does this save your cleric who doesn't have to use as many healing spells.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Infiniti2000 said:
You do agree that cure minor wounds is almost as useful and yet cheaper, right? :)
Well, yeah! That ring would be a steal at only a quarter million gps! And since it's merely an orison, I would be the benevolent DM and just call it an unlimited-use item. :lol:
Diirk said:
Charges per day is optional... if it doesn't have a limited number of charges per day, you don't add in the calculation. Good thing too, seeing as charges per day over 5 works out more expensive than an unlimited use item...
Can you please point me to another item that allows unlimited usage of a spell with instantaneous duration?
 




CyberSpyder said:
Ring of Elemental Command: Earth?
Likewise, Fire and Water. Not Air, though.
thanks! I should have remembered the fire ring, as the fighter in my campaign is now wearing one.

So far our unlimited-use instantaneous-effect items are either cursed or 200,000gp. hmm. When I get a chance I'll try to price out the elemental rings to see how much of their price is fudge-factor.
 

Nefrast said:
Also it strikes me as wrong to just think about the value of an item in the context of fights. Items are not automatically useless in non-fighting situations. Items are not only for PCs, other creatures use them too. When allowing new magic items (or finding the right price) one should also account for the impact the item has between encounters, how does it change the world, what impact will it have on the economy, does it causes big shifts in power groups, etc.
I'll admit first off that thinking through the broader social implications of magic is not something that factors greatly into my enjoyment of D&D, so I usually don't bother to do it.

However, I do think that the potential effects of a person or item that can provide unlimited healing are overstated. When an unlimited supply exists, the limiting factor becomes demand. How many people (or equally, what percentage of the population) would actually be in need of healing on any given day? More importantly, how much of this demand would already be met in a fantasy world where there are already clerics, paladins and other divine spellcasters? Assuming 1st-level clerics were as common as say, physicians today, how often would they actually have to deal with life-threatening injuries instead of diseases, minor cuts and bruises? Medical emergencies do exist, but how many clerics would you need to deal with all the medical emergencies that take place on an average day in a town of 10,000 inhabitants?

The additional healing capacity would be more useful during times of war and natural disasters, but again, how much more of an advantage would it be over scrolls and wands of cure light wounds? Even if you priced an item of unlimited cure light wounds(arguably, too cheaply) at 1,800 gp, the same cost would have given you two such items with 50 charges each, which would give you about twice the healing output. Arguably, in mass casualty situations, stabilizing as many people as quickly as you can is more important that being able to keep on healing. A wise ruler probably would want to invest in a small number of such items, to be used to get people out of hospital beds, but only after a greater number of cheaper charged items were used to stabilize as many as possible.

Frankly I think the main users of unlimited healing items would be people who tend to get severely injured on a regular basis, often in circumstances that require them to get back to full health as soon as possible. In other words - adventuring parties. :D
 

FireLance said:
However, I do think that the potential effects of a person or item that can provide unlimited healing are overstated. When an unlimited supply exists, the limiting factor becomes demand. How many people (or equally, what percentage of the population) would actually be in need of healing on any given day? More importantly, how much of this demand would already be met in a fantasy world where there are already clerics, paladins and other divine spellcasters? Assuming 1st-level clerics were as common as say, physicians today, how often would they actually have to deal with life-threatening injuries instead of diseases, minor cuts and bruises? Medical emergencies do exist, but how many clerics would you need to deal with all the medical emergencies that take place on an average day in a town of 10,000 inhabitants?
I absolutely agree with you that the typical temple (in a civilized land) or healer will mostly deal with small injuries, diseases, and such stuff. I also think the most of the time "healers" will use mundane things like heal skill, herbs, etc. The use of magic will probably be too expensive for the typical commoner.

Even if there are a lot of low level clerics and healers, if conflicts arise, say war with a orc horde, an attacking dragon, or a nice guild war then the spell slots of even many spell users could exhaust very quickly.

But the main issue I think is here that the availability of unlimited healing creates demand by itself. If you are a leader with unlimited healing under your command, you can send your thugs, soldiers, whatever much more often then without. Long resting times for your injured forces are no concern anymore, as are costs for clerics, the dependency on the good will of the church for healing, etc. With such unlimited healing you can get much better 'use' out of your fighting forces then without.

FireLance said:
The additional healing capacity would be more useful during times of war and natural disasters, but again, how much more of an advantage would it be over scrolls and wands of cure light wounds? Even if you priced an item of unlimited cure light wounds(arguably, too cheaply) at 1,800 gp, the same cost would have given you two such items with 50 charges each, which would give you about twice the healing output.
Even a small group of mean thugs can use up these charges very quickly. If you have only a limited capacity of 'healing', then you don't use it up like water. You use it, when you really must, when it's worth the cost. If your wand has only 1 charge left, you use it in a emergency situation, but not if one of your thugs/soldiers is injured after a job. He can heal through mundane ways. But if you have unlimited 'charges' left, you can do very hard and demanding jobs in very quick succession. Healing costs are no issue any longer. That changes what you can do - and thus what you will do.

FireLance said:
Arguably, in mass casualty situations, stabilizing as many people as quickly as you can is more important that being able to keep on healing. A wise ruler probably would want to invest in a small number of such items, to be used to get people out of hospital beds, but only after a greater number of cheaper charged items were used to stabilize as many as possible.
Absolutely. Every war leader will want to get these items, no matter what. Every single one. They will be so much more precious then a mere 10.000 GP. And not only rulers of big cities or nations, thug gangs, temples, thief guilds, adventuring parties, evil daemon lord worshiping cults, etc. There would be zillions of groups after these things. A typical fantasy world is full of conflict and war all the time. The demand for such items would be immense.

The question is how long would charged items stay cheaper? At 10.000 GP the unlimited item tops every charged item in no time. Does it cost 100.000? Then it can be the cheaper solution for even one single war, especially if your enemy has no such items, you can regroup, heal, and attack again very fast, when his soldiers are still resting. It may be worth several hundreds of thousands of GP, because with this advantage, you can win the war. These are exactly the questions to be asked, do get to the 'true' value of items (which can depend very much on your game and world).

FireLance said:
Frankly I think the main users of unlimited healing items would be people who tend to get severely injured on a regular basis, often in circumstances that require them to get back to full health as soon as possible. In other words - adventuring parties. :D
Adventuring parties, thief guilds, thugs, mercenaries, war parties, war loving goblinoids, people living on savage frontiers were they are often attacked, churches who fight against infidels or enemy churches. If you have such items, things will get more rough. A resource which previous limited their doings is now available at unlimited quantity. Leaders will get automatically more aggressive because they can afford it.
 

Bad Paper said:
Can you please point me to another item that allows unlimited usage of a spell with instantaneous duration?
When active (once/week, up to 24 hours at a time, though) the Obsidian Steed gets "the following additional powers usable once per round at will: overland flight, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt" - and Plane Shift is Instantaneous.

The Ring of Telekenisis lets you use Telekenisis at will - and the spell has an Instantaneous option (Violent Thrust).
 

Jack Simth said:
When active (once/week, up to 24 hours at a time, though) the Obsidian Steed gets "the following additional powers usable once per round at will: overland flight, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt" - and Plane Shift is Instantaneous.
Wowza, never really looked at the obsidian steed. But again, it's not unlimited. You are limited to 14,400 uses of plane shift per week. Likely you would also need an airline barf bag. Is the Steed keyed to any particular plane, or can it go anywhere? My BBEG would like it to stay out of his demiplane, thank you very much.

Jack Simth said:
The Ring of Telekenisis lets you use Telekenisis at will - and the spell has an Instantaneous option (Violent Thrust).
Awesome! You win! (I don't know what you win, maybe a pat on the back) And the guidelines price that ring as a command-activated item at 81,000gp instead of its 75,000gp list price. hmm. I guess there's only so much violent thrusting you can do in a day. :o

In my charges-per-day way of pricing, it comes out to 233,280,000gp. Clearly some DM even-handedness must come into play. Perhaps paying attention to school (conjuration vs transmutation) should play a part.
 
Last edited:

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top