D&D (2024) How quickly should WOTC add new classes?

When should WOTC introduce new classes to 50th Anniversary D&D

  • No more outside of the Artificer

    Votes: 16 17.8%
  • Publish a new class with the Artificer

    Votes: 19 21.1%
  • A year after the Artificer

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • A year after the Artificer and every year after

    Votes: 14 15.6%
  • 2 years after the Artificer

    Votes: 3 3.3%
  • 3 years after the Artificer

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • Whenever the 1st rules option book is published

    Votes: 21 23.3%
  • Whenever the 2nd rules option book is published

    Votes: 13 14.4%
  • Whenever the first setting that requires a new class is published

    Votes: 24 26.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 15.6%

Yea, but you're aware that rolling back/flattening the number of classes is a pipe dream, right? It's not going to happen with official D&D.
Do they officially reduce the number of classes, no. Do they create four groups with 3 classes each and make those more similar, absolutely.

The outcome is the same, but one creates less of an uproar (still some, as we can see in this forum…)
 

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I would rather have a larger pool of poorly supported classes than a small pool of unevenly designed classes. Every new class has a chance to actually be good and become beloved and demanded by fans in future editions.
why is this true for a class but would not be true for a subclass?

I rather have 6 well designed classes with several subclasses each. Get the basics right first. The subclasses will still be a mixed bag for quite some time if the past is any indication.
 


you won’t get any agreement in this…

I see no need for more than 4 classes. Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Mage. The others roll in there somewhere.

Barbarian and Monk clearly to Fighter, Druid clearly to Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard clearly to Mage. The rest might be depending on the flavor / emphasis. For balance (ie 3 each), Paladin to Cleric, and Ranger and Bard to Rogue.

If you want to break out half-casters (and I guess we actually should, for mechanical reasons at a minimum), then 6. With one divine and one arcane half-caster template.

Paladin then is the divine half-caster. Not sure who becomes the arcane half-caster, maybe Warlock. I prefer my Rangers and Bards more classic and less half-caster…
Why are Paladins and Rangers not warriors? why is monk not a priest or a rogue? A lot of classes don't fit cleanly into the division, and forcing them to fit is going to cost them part of their identity.
 

Other: Wizards of the Coast should reduce the number of classes, not increase them.

I say this every time the subject comes up: D&D only needs 4 base classes:
  • Artificers, sorcerers, warlocks, wizards, and their subclasses should all be subclasses of Mage.
  • Clerics, druids, paladins, and their subclasses should all be subclasses of Priest.
  • Bards, rogues, and their subclasses should all be subclasses of Sneak.
  • Barbarians, fighters, monks, and their subclasses should all be subclasses of Warrior.
I mean, now that are 4 'class groups' all with common mechanics.

So if you think of the class groups as classes, and the classes as subclasses, that's exactly what we have.
 

Class-wise, I'd like to see a Psionicist for Dark Sun. But I don't think any new classes are needed if they're not revisiting Dark Sun -- and they've said they're not in the foreseeable future.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what adventurer archetypes are missing. Usually, when I see people saying "archetypes" are missing, they have specific and unique mechanics in mind that used to exist and now do not.

For example, take Warlord. I'm not entirely sure why paladin or fighter or war cleric or valor bard don't fit that character archetype even with a custom subclass. Still, the usual response to that is "first-order lazy combat." The problem, though, is "lazy combat" isn't a character archetype. It's just a unique mechanic. It's a mechanic that doesn't translate well outside of 4e, but that's somewhat beyond the thread's scope.

The point is that mechanics are not what defines a character archetype.

When I think of character archetypes, they are not just a character class, but a character class plus a background and sometimes a species/race. That's how paladin can represent the classic white and black knight archetypes. That's how rogue can represent both thief and assassin archetypes. That's how artificer can represent both gearpunk and alchemist archetypes. Just as one mechanic does not define a class, class mechanics alone do not define a character, let alone an archetype.

For example, I'd consider these archetypes or archetype elements totally missing:
  • The monster with a heart of gold -- The closest I could come with this would be to reflavor a race as a monstrous creature, and then use monk or barbarian, but the trappings don't really work that well.
  • The wealthy aristocrat -- Could be an actual landed noble or just a merchant who bought a title, which are common enough backgrounds, but D&D doesn't support starting with a bank account.
  • The cursed wanderer -- Works best in solo games, sometimes, as otherwise the curse tends to kill the other PCs.
  • The aged veteran or wizened sage -- Could be a mentor figure or something similar, but the game doesn't really support starting out with a high level of competency and then being surpassed by the other PCs or dying off or retiring before the end of the campaign. The game just isn't structured that way. These are NPC-only.
  • The professional out-of-their-league -- From physicians to lawyers to scholars to smiths, these are the average characters who find themselves doing things they didn't plan on doing and haven't been training for, but that bring an entirely new set of abilities to the table. The game says they're not really adventuring types, so they aren't available to be adventurers. They're confined to NPCdom. Not weird enough or wild enough, I suppose.
The real issue is that every time they try to introduce something like the above, it's always watered down to toothlessness and forced to fit the rest of the game. You can be a monster with a heart of gold... by being a bugbear with a nasty scar. You can be a wealthy aristocrat... who is recently disinherited. You can't be an aged veteran... who is nevertheless just a level 1 PC. You can be a cursed wanderer... with a curse that makes you sad every few days and is otherwise all benefits and no actual dangers, costs, or hindrances. You can have a profession... as an also-ran to your main occupation as an adventurer.

In other words, I think mandatory class equity is the actual limiting factor for adding more character archetypes to D&D. Yes, a common theme is that none of these archetypes fit into D&D's design, and several strain or outright break many of the preconceptions and premises of the whole game. But at the same time, I can play these archetypes in other games, and they are missing in D&D. In other words, they're missing archetypes, but they're not present because they're not what the game is interested in presenting.

On the other hand, if you're just trying to jazz-up saying, "I want more classes," or "I want more mechanical variety," that's fine. But I don't feel like it's appropriate to call those archetypes.

I'll agree that subclasses are disappointing, and classes are pretty samey. Subclasses are not as defining or transformative as I'd like them to be. In many cases, they don't add as much to a class as they should. They all feel like they should feature a redefining central mechanic, and very few do that. However, that's just fifth edition D&D. It's kinda dull, uninspiring, and safe. I don't see that changing. Not until I'm too dead to be playing this game anymore, at least.
 

I'm still not sure why sorcerer exists and eats up a class slot. 'hot wizard' isn't a class.

I'd love to see sorcerer merged into wizard and warlock, and then warlord take its place.
Arcanist – d20PFSRD It sounds like you want something like Pathfinder 1st edition's Arcanist class. ;)

Pathfinder 1st edition created a number of other hybrid classes besides the Arcanist class. Hybrid Classes – d20PFSRD Some of these could probably be converted over to 5e and used in place of one or more of the 5e classes.
 

The monster with a heart of gold -- The closest I could come with this would be to reflavor a race as a monstrous creature, and then use monk or barbarian, but the trappings don't really work that well.
Ironically, the closest we got to this was the playtest sorcerer, which transformed as it spent its will points.

But yeah, this one is basically non existent in DnD, and could easily be its own class. Lots of monster variants like vampires, werewolves, liches, and all sorts where players could benefit from being able to play as a version of them.
 

A subclass is unlikely to fix an already mediocre class. A new class is free from existing burdens.
alternatively that is why getting the class right is important, and the fewer you have, the more time you have to do that

The more classes you have, the more this turns into a crapshoot
 

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