D&D 5E How should be the future Oriental Adventures.

[Retreater]

A real history, culture, and mythology ninja would be pretty boring....basically a thief with disguise, lots of improvised weapons taken from farmers, and no sneak attack.

A totally divorced from history, culture, and mythology ninja would be not called a ninja.

D&D has always been a wazoo mish-mash of every single thing that could be taken from history and made into something completely fictional but fun to play as a character, or kill with a character.

Just because we've always done something one way doesn't mean we have to keep doing it that way. It's pretty clear that D&D going forward is going to have a different feel. The nostalgic editions still exist for those who want them.
I wouldn't run it out of concern of cultural appropriation and wouldn't want to squash the stereotypical behaviors from my players that would result from such a campaign at my table. But sure, let's see it for those who want it.

 

[Azzy]

Then what's left?

I dunno, maybe ask people from the nations and cultures being represented to decribe their tropes and such for their myths, legends, period and fantasy literature as seen by their people and culture. Basing (or revising) a setting on that would give lots of gaming fodder.

 

[Azzy]

(and I believe their art director Emi Tanji is of Asian descent).

Seems likely, she does have a Japanese name.

My guess is that we won't see an actual Oriental/Asian Adventures book, but that WotC will incorporate such material into specific setting books, like a Tarkir or re-vamped Kara-Tur, or perhaps a supplement with a very different title, ala Xanathar's.

Yeah, I really see it being more a setting book (or even an adventure) with a title that's appropiate to that setting or adventure.

Realistically any book dealing with Asian cultures is going to have a problem because of China. If they make a fantasy culture that is obviously based on Korea or Japan and those cultures appear to be anything less than subservient to a Chinese culture there's a chance to book won't get printed if Chinese printers are used or if Hasbro is looking to sell the book in China. That has been an issue lately or several companies

I don't think that that will be an issue, as I believe that WotC uses US printers.

 

[humble minion]

Looking back through Jade Regent, a Pathfinder Adventure Path, I can see how one can create RPG content for Asian fantasy that also isn't racist (I haven't read the whole thing so may have missed things, please point it out if I do). I think WotC can do even better.

To be fair, while Paizo certainly have the best of intentions when it comes to representation of different cultures, and while the Dragon Empires Gazetteer is a good piece of work that has analogs to places like Malaysia etc which are often ignored in settings like this, I suspect there's some aspects of Jade Regent they'd do very differently if they had their time again.

I've been rereading it recently (never run or played it) and I'm only up to chapter 5, but in the light of conversations on here and in the youtube analysis of OA that's been going around, consider:

• the whole thing is basically a big white saviour narrative. PCs are assumed to be natives to conventional-quasi-European-fantasy-village Sandpoint, who then have to trek across the world to save the day because the people in not-Japan can't fix their own problems. This is the only time Paizo have done an adventure path in the Dragon Empires and you basically have to bend over backwards (or have mid-campaign PC deaths) to make local people the heroes.
• the effusive use of the 'exotic' and 'mystical' and 'mysterious' etc etc cliches which drive those youtube people up the wall so much, making not-Japan seem like a weird otherworld rather than an actual place where, y'know, piles of people actually live their lives and do mundane stuff and wake up every morning etc etc.
• the fourth installment of the path basically has an entire scene where the GM is encouraged to pull out all the 'eeew, Asian food is weird and made of strange bits of strange animals' tropes and play it for laughs and/or disgust. Seriously, it's written like something out of the 1950s.

I haven't gotten any further in my reread yet, though from the summary Chapter 5 (which is a bit of a sandbox-y part where you gather allies) looks like a tick-the-box-off-the-list tour of Japanese tropes. Go talk to a geisha, go talk to a ninja clan, go talk to a ronin...

 

[The Glen]

I don't think that that will be an issue, as I believe that WotC uses US printers.

that's only a small part of the problem. China especially lately has a problem with if you print anything they consider belittling them or idolizing their rivals they will keep your book out of their country. Even if you try to disguise it. I don't know how much Hasbro is worried about the China Market but it is something to consider

 

[Bedrockgames]

This feel too much like censorship to me. Criticizing is perfectly fine. But trying to get books taken down, so other people don't have the choice of reading them if they want, I think that is wrong

 

[SkidAce]

Just because we've always done something one way doesn't mean we have to keep doing it that way. It's pretty clear that D&D going forward is going to have a different feel. The nostalgic editions still exist for those who want them.
I wouldn't run it out of concern of cultural appropriation and wouldn't want to squash the stereotypical behaviors from my players that would result from such a campaign at my table. But sure, let's see it for those who want it.

Are you speaking of publications by companies, or are you saying that since the Monasteries of Shadow (dedicated to Xan-Yae from Greyhawk) that have ninjas in their training would be something that you would not prefer if we were playing together?

I am asking, there is no intent to put owrkds in your mouth, just hoping for a better understanding,

 

[Charlaquin]

However, there is a problem. In Hollywood, it is no longer acceptable for a white actor to play a non-white role. Will that mentality filter down to role playing? After all, the core of role playing is acting. Will it leave us with guidance that white DMs should not utilize non-white cultural homages in their games? Should non-white players be allowed to role play characters inspired by non-white cultures?

If you understand the reason whitewashing in film and TV is a problem, it becomes clear that this is a silly question.

Acting roles are a limited resource, for which there is a tremendous amount of competition. Asian actors are very rarely considered, let alone cast, for roles that aren’t specifically written as Asian, yet white actors are very frequently cast to play Asian characters. This makes it very, very hard to get work as an Asian actor.

In contrast, a white player playing an Asian or Asian-coded character in an RPG isn’t filling up a slot that could have otherwise gone to an Asian player. Anybody can RP whatever they want without depriving other players of the ability to fill that role.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Just because we've always done something one way doesn't mean we have to keep doing it that way. It's pretty clear that D&D going forward is going to have a different feel. The nostalgic editions still exist for those who want them.
I wouldn't run it out of concern of cultural appropriation and wouldn't want to squash the stereotypical behaviors from my players that would result from such a campaign at my table. But sure, let's see it for those who want it.

This doesn't really have much to do with what I was talking about, so sure?

Is it possible to have a class called a ninja and not be already "culturally appropriating"? If you added to that class the attributes of being stealthy and using strange farm implement based weapons does THAT make it "culturally appropriating"? How about if you make that class native to a far away land not the center focus of the campaign?

I'm not going to get into yet another orc discussion, but just taking the most basic characteristics of something and inserting it into your fiction isn't disrespectful or appropriation.

Take Cowboy Bebop as a counter example. Should the creators feel guilty for using a western pastiche for the setting since the "Wild West" theme of cowboy hats and gunfights is traditionally considered a North and South American one?

 

[Guest 6801328]

On the other hand, 90% of Native Americans respond in polls that they don't have a problem with Indian sports names but a vocal 10% are always trying to force their views onto the rest of society. I assume the same thing is going on here with the word Oriental.

I was curious about this and Googled around. Found a number of places that said that the 10% number is often cited, but comes from a non-scientific opinion poll, and that more rigorous research has shown it's really about 50%, shooting up to 2/3 among those who engage in traditional practices.