D&D (2024) How should the Blood Hunter be implemented in 1DnD?

[Frozen_Heart]

Edit: This is an older thread I made, but I'm repurposing it into the "how should it be handled" series of threads.

So we know all the official classes apart from artificer are being reworked for 5e, and artificer has been mentioned so the developers have remembered it exists. However Blood Hunter is in a rather different situation. As it's technically homebrew we've got no clue what's happening to it, or if the class will receive support from Mercer going forward at all.

However if the class did get updated to OneDnD standards, what should be changed about it? The class has always had a slightly outdated 3.5/pathfinder feel about it, and this may feel even more jarring with this upcoming edition than it does in 5e. What should change about the class to make it 'fit in' more this time around? What class group should it be placed in? Should it get new subclasses beyond the four it has now? If so what should they be?

 

[Clint_L]

Bloodhunters are interesting because they are the only 3PP class that is available on DnDBeyond, which had a pre-existing relationship with Critical Role before the WotC buyout. I know tis because every term at least one student makes a BH character and I don't really understand how they work. The idea is kind of cool, though honestly they feel like they could have just been a ranger subclass.

 

[Vael]

It's clearly a warrior class. First, I think some of the terminology needs changing/clarifying, I find my eyes glaze over remembering the difference between crimson rites and blood maledictions. I haven't seen them in play, so I can't comment on the balance of the class, but I've heard a few consider it underpowered.

 

[bedir than]

my favorite part of the Blood Hunter is that the people who've been around them the most still have no idea how to operate the mechanics.

So what would a new version need? Mechanics simple enough players playing their 54th session with one and observing 100s of others know how to use them

 

[Clint_L]

It's clearly a warrior class. First, I think some of the terminology needs changing/clarifying, I find my eyes glaze over remembering the difference between crimson rites and blood maledictions. I haven't seen them in play, so I can't comment on the balance of the class, but I've heard a few consider it underpowered.

I think the flavour is more ranger, personally, with their task of tracking and seeking out evil. They are literally called hunters. They don't use heavy armour, and can be a dex build or a strength build. Kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other as far as ranger or warrior goes, I guess. Though I suppose warrior does work better for sub-class because no spells.

They've seemed underpowered when my students have played them, but I don't think they understood the class very well, so Blodhunters might be much better in the hands of a skilled player. Certainly the Critical Role guys use them fairly effectively. Making them a warrior sub-class would probably be all the improvement they needed.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Always thought that it would be better in the warrior section than the expert section. As the class is about killing monsters, and it's not exactly a skill-monkey. Most of its abilities are combat focused like a fighter or barbarian.

Of all the subclasses, I feel that ghostslayer feels most like a 5e class and is the best designed. Lycan feels a bit outdated in its implementation when compared directly to path of the beast. Mutant is fun, but stupidly overcomplex. And profane soul is... bad and lazy. The entire subclass is 'you get these spells'.

I don't feel like blood hunter makes a good ranger subclass. The entire theme is 'play as the monster', with lots of types of monsters to pick from. Ranger doesn't provide that. Ironically, the closest 5e has come is the original playtest sorcerer.

Would be nice to see vampiric and draconic blood hunter subclasses.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My opinion is there is space for the blood hunter in the future, althought maybe with other name. It is a monster-hunter class with some monster traits. And with this concept more subclasses could be added later

 

[Neonchameleon]

Honestly? The bloodhunter should probably be either a subclass or a collection of them. There are multiple themes and I don't think they tie together necessarily or even well and because there are so many different subsystems it's a very faffy class.

• A spell-less "fighter light" chassis with some magical power to augment themselves and no heavy armour.
• Quasi-magic to manipulate blood.
• And a elemental effect to keep the damage high that doesn't seem to tie to literally anything else the class is trying to do
• "I'm a real monster. And not just a blood-bender. Graah"
• I can use blood to track and hunt (brand of castigation, grim psychometry, brand of tethering).

Personally I find points 2 and 3 slightly undercut each other and make for a muddier class and one with much smaller niches because you've got to do both. The closest to a "generic" bloodhunter is the ghost hunter. And if you need to reassemble it there's always multiclassing.

So what would I do? Simple - I'd break down the class and spread it around into places where it fits better. First I think the elemental damage is almost redundant and undercuts the theme. Second the subclasses all fit well in other classes.

• Order of the Lycan? Let's transform to become a melee monster. Barbarian of course and it even has the right number of skills and the right armour proficiency. I think Beast covers this (possibly with the addition of enhanced senses). And barbarian is a strongly overlapping base especially if the blood curses are getting in the way.
• Order of the Mutant? A drug fuelled ability that needs to be recovered from? How is this not a rage? And there's again nothing tying this half to the blood curses; it's two almost entirely different things.
• Order of the Profane Soul? The Blood Magic expert that already is half warlock? You come in from the other side; blood magic as hex variants become a warlock pact boon (the Warlock is already a de facto partial caster and you can't tell me blood hexes plus eldritch blast aren't evocative). Call it the Blood Cage or something and play up the ability to find people for both good and ill while the main ability is hex-variants that cost hit points.
• Order of the Ghost Hunter? A class that hunts a specific type of enemy? And that uses more magic than the average blood hunter? I mean what sort of class is sometimes called a Hunter and has Favoured Enemies? And uses often-coincidental magic? We've a ranger here, with the subclass upgrading Hunter's Mark to do things with blood.
• "Vanilla" Blood Hunter? A physical-type with the ability to manipulate blood and no spell list. I'm not sure whether this is a death knight fighter or a dark monk subclass.

And then I'd possibly amp up the subclasses in ways I couldn't because they are all tied to such a "bitty" class. I mean Order of the Mutant's subsequent Path of the Mutant I'd probably then pull shenanigans with, allowing them to use finesse weapons with Int - and to swap their Int and Str when raging for a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde effect.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

• Order of the Mutant? A drug fuelled ability that needs to be recovered from? How is this not a rage? And there's again nothing tying this half to the blood curses; it's two almost entirely different things.

Order of the mutant is clearly trying to be a Geralt/Witcher clone. Definitely not something I'd describe as a barbarian subclass.

 

[DMZ2112]

The Blood Hunter just needs a qualified rules editor who is not a fan of Critical Role. It just tries to do too much and still succeeds at nearly all of it because it's a homebrew pet project.

It's not broken, exactly, it's just too much. It's a Swiss Army knife.

The most obvious example I've seen has been that I have a homebrew knowledge proficiency rule that I use that (among other things) gives PCs proficiency in any knowledge (a defined subset of non-action skills) on their class skill list.

Now, I'm not saying the Blood Hunter needs to be revised because it doesn't play well with my own homebrew, but this rule turned the Blood Hunter in my campaign into a goddamn Akashic Library.

Their class skill list is ridiculous, and reflects an overall lack of focus to the class.