D&D 5E How should the Sorcerer look when he (or she) comes back?

[Grimmjow]

another thing that could be tried is letting sorcerers pick spells they know and have them keep this list, so that you choose what you want as you level up but are stuck with it, while wizards can take any spell at the beginning of the day.

In this way sorcerers spell list is not defined by their bloodline. Instead have the blood line give them some things that let them change the spell. Maybe dragon bloodline says "You can change any spell from the arcane spell list's damage type to the same type as your dragon sire's breath weapon" Now a sorcerer with white dragon bloodline cane change fireball to a big ball of ice instead. As your level goes up, you gain more ways to change your spells.

 

[MoonSong]

another thing that could be tried is letting sorcerers pick spells they know and have them keep this list, so that you choose what you want as you level up but are stuck with it, while wizards can take any spell at the beginning of the day.

In this way sorcerers spell list is not defined by their bloodline. Instead have the blood line give them some things that let them change the spell. Maybe dragon bloodline says "You can change any spell from the arcane spell list's damage type to the same type as your dragon sire's breath weapon" Now a sorcerer with white dragon bloodline cane change fireball to a big ball of ice instead. As your level goes up, you gain more ways to change your spells.

Actually that is the way sorcerers work in 3 e, they know a small amount of spells, but they are entirely free to pick whatever they want. In fact it was entirely possible to build a sorcerer whose entire spell repertory was focussed on social interaction or thievery or exploration, or in working on the mind or almost anything, you werent forced to take combat spells (of course there is still the fact that Mage armor + Grease was the optimal choice).

I like your second suggestion. Having your bloodline allowing you free metamagic effects could go a long way to integrate both versions of the sorcerer, maybe even have a "no bloodline" option would be cool.

 

[Unwise]

I really enjoyed the Dragon Sorceror they presented in the playtest. He played very well, opened up some great character concepts and seemed capable of being balanced to me. That being said, I don't think he was an atypical sorceror, even for a Dragon focussed one. I would very much like to be able to play that character as presented, but certainly not at the expense of the sorcerers we are accostommed to.

For me personally though, the playtest sorc is indeed the one I am looking to play and i really want that style to remain.

 

[Grimmjow]

maybe even have a "no bloodline" option would be cool.

I have an idea for bloodline: Ancestral Bloodline which come from powerful ancestor maybe an archmage and maybe give you transformations into paragon example of your race. Haha i'm more elfy than all elves! Haha I'm ideal

perhaps the "no bloodline" option could be the "Ancestral bloodline"

 

[kerleth]

I always think it is interesting to see how people can start with the same premise and end up at completely different conclusions. That sort of diversity of outlook is a good thing when brainstorming for a class.

See, when I think of metamagic, I think wizard. The wizard wasn't just born with a gift that took a little training. He had to study, and experiment, and research, and really understand what made the magic work before he could cast spells. So he is the one that should be able to tweak a spells area/shape, or duration, or effect, because he understands the underlying principles behind the magic.

The sorcerer (to my mind) has relatively easy magic. He had to train to control it and continues to delve into his own abilities and unlock more of his gift, but he didn't have to struggle like the wizard. His magic is comparably effortless. A wizard might lose control of a spell if interrupted, but for a sorcerer it just happens. A wizard might incorrectly cast a spell and have it go wrong. A sorcerer might risk harming himself by channeling too much energy through his own spirit or body. A wizard needs complicated gestures and incantations while a sorcerer just needs something to focus his will on to make it so.

For the record I don't think my interperetation is the "right" one. I'm just sharing my view point.

 

[Steely_Dan]

another thing that could be tried is letting sorcerers pick spells they know and have them keep this list, so that you choose what you want as you level up but are stuck with it, while wizards can take any spell at the beginning of the day.

Yes, let's get back to that, none of these "Mighty Morphing" shenanigans

 

[lutecius]

I've never felt the 3e sorcerer was that different from the wizard conceptually. book vs blood, specialty vs bloodline... this is mostly cosmetic to me. the real difference was always in the casting mechanic.

As long as I have a viable spell-point alternative for every kind of wizard and hopefully other caster classes, so I can ignore the Vancian system without losing anything (like access to some spells), I'm not particularly attached to the name (I can always call my wizard a sorcerer and decide whether his spells come from books or ancestry). I don't care if it's used for a completely different concept.

And the morphing sorcerer is as good as any. My only beef with him was that with his truncated spell list and his casting abilities taking a back seat to his transformation powers he couldn't work as a wizard alternative. But the mechanics were cool.

 

[Danzauker]

Wizards say that they are thinking about giving wizards the choice of different spell systems besides vancian (which is a good thing, IMHO), so I think to really differentiate the sorcerer you need to give him something else.

Bloodlines and "metamagic thingies" are IMHO the way.

I say: give sorcerers manouvers (with another name, of course).

Expertise dice are a good mechanic, which is already being playtested and seems it's getting success from people. Let sorcerers accumulate expertise dice like fighters do and spend them to maximise/alter/strengthen their spells.

This reinforces the "canon" concepts of wizards and sorcerers in D&D. The former learn intricate and precise formulas from their books. Once prepared they can't be "edited" much. The latter are innate casters. They can shape their magic with their will.

 

[Li Shenron]

The sorcerer was originally added to 3.0 to justify the huge number of arcane spells so that the 1/3 of the book (hyperbole) wasn't dedicated to just one class.

No. More simply, it was added to 3.0 for people who wanted to play a wizard but didn't want/like the idea of memorizing/preparing spells on a daily basis.

There was no real conceptual space to fill.

Yes, this is true. The "magic from within" was an afterthought to pretend that the class had a concept of its own and not just a mechanic of its own.

But in 3.0 times the two were still somewhat interchangeable. I've seen Wizards refluffed as Sorcerers and Sorcerers refluffed as Wizards. The only tricky bit was the spellbook, depending on it (as per the Wizard class mechanics) may not fit a Sorcerer concept, but nothing that couldn't be solved by a gentlemen's agreement with the DM (i.e. the DM explicitly deciding she was not going to stress the spellbook rules e.g. not having it stolen/lost, not checking stuff like number of pages used...).

 

[Danzauker]

No. More simply, it was added to 3.0 for people who wanted to play a wizard but didn't want/like the idea of memorizing/preparing spells on a daily basis.

This.

And that's why in 3.x I played ONLY sorcerers and NO wizards.

If in 5E they keep the promise of having non-vancian casting systems for wizards, then I don't care about a separate sorcerer class. *

Well, unless they come out with some design rationales, like they did with wiil points and bloodlines in the last playtest packet. I liked that, even if the presented bloodlines were a little peculiar to say the least, but I have no doubt they can come out with some more "traditional" bloodlines in upcoming packets.

* of course if this comes out not to be true, I think 5E NEEDS a "non-vancian wizard-equivalent" class, where with that I mean basically what the sorcerer was in 3.x: same spell list, different mechanic. Having that it's too much a deal breaker for too many people. The name of the class is not important. Having it in core is.