mellored
Legend
it's having 3 attacks * 2d8 per hit from spirit shroud (plus foresight at 18, plus smites) that's over powered.
Keep Thirsting Blade at 2 attacks, scale lifedriker instead, and it's fine.
D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?
- Thread starter Frozen_Heart
- Start date
Keep Thirsting Blade at 2 attacks, scale lifedriker instead, and it's fine.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Aegis as part of the subclass thematic is great.
Because 4e powers can translate variously into 5e − class features, spells, feats, etcetera − it helps to focus on concepts and on whatever mechanics are known to work well in 5e.
My impulse is that the 5e Swordmage need not be too slavish in modeling the 4e mechanics. Albeit if that proves to be useful in 5e that is fine.
In the example above, I am unsure why the Level 1 Swordmage needs both per-rest slots for "encounter" and per-long for "daily" when both are choosing from the same spell list. (Unless by "Sword Art" you dont mean spells?)
The 5e "Invocation" can be anything, whether a social or exploration "Utility", or a combat effect. I prefer this. 4e didnt really work anyway, since the "good" Utilities were the ones that were dual use being effective in combat, like mobility, stealth, and AC boosts. Let the Invocation be any kind of class feature.
I guess, but some 4e Swordmage features required the use of a "heavy blade" or a "light blade". That bothered me during 4e. I hope the 5e version makes clear the Swordmage oneself is the "blade" figuratively, personally, in the same way that the Aegis has the Swordmage oneself be the "shield" figuratively, personally.
5e has some weird allergy to using the body as a "weapon". This weirdness seems nonuseful. It was better designwise when the Unarmed Strike was listed on the Weapon Table, as an innately proficient weapon. Fangs, claws, and horns might offer Slash or Pierce, instead of Bludgeon, and some classes could improve or augment its damage.
Incidently, the 5e format should probably refer to the "Weapon" damage type and give up on distinguishing between Slash, Pierce, and Bludgeion. The edition never did anything significant with the extra complication.
If I remember correctly, in the context of the psionic power source, the 5e designers commented:
• magic can be a spell
• magic can be not a spell (such as a class feature)
• magic can produce an effect that is itself nonmagic
In the context of psionic, I view the mind itself (being the consciousness level of the "soul" and that associates with the Astral) is nonmagical. But because of the nature of magic itself being "psychosensitive" the mind can exert magic by means of intention.
But is true for all spell casters. The concentration effect that makes stacking impossible is part of the reason for better balance between casters and martials. (However, martial classes need to have a way to exert narrative control at the highest tiers.)
Exactly. Probably Mage Armor itself can have a class feature to augment it, to make it at-will, and perhaps add Intelligence and-or Proficiency to its AC.
Note, the Mage Armor spell is already almost an "always on" use of a spell slot. Its 2014 duration lasts 8 hours. Casting it twice makes it active while awake, and casting it three times with diminishing returns makes it active at will, always on 24 hours a day. The spell description itself should probably just be a 24 hour spell duration. As-is currently, it is almost the same thing as Medium Armor Training. The spell description could be made the same thing as the Unarmored Defense that the Monk (+ Wisdom) and Barbarian (+ Constitution) have, but the spell adds "+ your casting ability" which for the Swordmage would be + Intelligence. Thus the spell grants 24 hours of: AC 10 + Dexterity + Casting Ability (Intelligence).
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Ok. Its being overpowered because of "multiplying" the magical damage makes sense.
5e has the ironic situation of "the Geometric Fighter and the Linear Wizard". The Wizard access to spells eventually peters out, there is no autoscaling, and the progression is calculated to be linear. (The spells themselves need calibration for their slot level however.) But the 5e Fighter is geometric, where adding damage to the attack gets multiplied by the Extra Attacks. Thus multiplying a high tier magical effect can get crazy. Normally, the caster is swapping out damage for narrative control, albeit if a spell effect itself is merely damage it can be calculated to be on par with a Fighter − but then not also multiplied!
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Maybe. But. The Warlock is unable to unload an entire days supply all at once during the same encounter. The Warlock cannot "nova" to the extremity that the Wizard chassis can.
The extremely powerful boss fight is less frequent. Thus the Wizard chassis always has the option to trivialize it.
By splitting slots into smaller numbers per short rest, the Warlock chassis reduces its nova effectiveness, and makes combat casting less swingy, more reliable, and balance better.
The Hexblade has specific features that require attention.
But the short rest spells are sound design and help normalize the way martials and casters interact with each other.
mellored
Legend
Basically the subclass in 4e.
Though perhaps you get a generic Aegis at level 1. Then a buffed version at 3.
Basic Aegis
bonus action, select a target within 10'.
As a reaction, impose disadvantage on their attack against a creature other than yourself.
Roughly equal to a fighting style.
Sure. Keep as close as you can to 4e while still being in the 5e framework and balance.
At very least, avoid the 4e issue of every class having identical structure.
I.e. not yet another caster.
Sword Art would be similar to a Pact Spell.
But limited to smites.
I.e.
Select one of the following, you can use it once per short rest. The spell level increases as you gain Swordmage level.
Thunder Smite
Searing Smite
Wrathful Smite
Ensnaring Strike.
Elemental Burst
If it's too strong at 1, then move it to level 2.
Agree that 4e Utilities where a bit of a failure and ended up being nearly always a defensive thing. Kind of undercut the roleplayers.
But they could be anything.
Mask of Many Faces
Devils Sight
at will levitate.
Read any language.
It's been a while since i played one, but I see no reason to add those restrictions.
They already added unarmed to smites in the playtest.
You are again using a false foundation to construct everything that follows. If a fight only lasts one round it probably takes longer to setup than it does to run -AND- warlock easily has one of the best at will abilities in the game for such a bizarrely trivial waste of time. If a fight lasts two or more rounds then the warlock could easily drop two or three of it's two or three charges on LETSTAKEASHORTREST with no concern of "burning out in a nova". Even if the combat lasts three to four or more rounds the warlock is still in no pain because it's at will stands shoulder to shoulder with geometric fighters as you phrased it
Particularly relevant to my interests? Mario and Luigi, Princess Peach (MC Cleric, Bard, or even Paladin), Link, many of the characters or Jobs/Classes in Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star. Gambit and Magik of the X-Men. If you want to get self-referential about it, Deedlit.
CreamCloud0
Hero
mario, luigi and peach? is there any specific game/s you're referencing there, i know mario and luigi consistently have fire and lightning abilities pop up respectively and peach healing/protection but i don't personally recall them ever channeling those abilities through the use of weapons? or are you using the interpretation of a warrior that also separately utilises magic (of which we already have a few) rather than a weapon enhancing magic fighting style
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mellored
Legend
Mario channels his fire though a flower.
Luigi channels his air power though a vacuum.
Peach is obviously a princesses warlord. Inspiring others.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
To clarify, would Sword Art be like the 2014 Warlock "Otherworldly Patron" feature?
The Warlock choice of patron comes with extra spells known, and subclass features like, Fey Presence and Mist Step for the Fey subclass.
Analogously, the Swordmage would get whatever damage type of Smite made sense and can anticipate the later choice of subclass at level 3, if the player wishes to match them up?
I assume the Swordmage is still using the Warlock spell slots per short rest, analogous to the "Pact Magic" feature and its cantrips and slots.
However, the Psion classes by LaserLlama and KibblesTasty convert these Warlock slots into spell points that refresh after each short rest. This spell point mechanics works really well, for balance and convenience and versatility. I think all full casters should work this way! Hopefully the 5e Swordmage uses spell points per short rest as well.
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