How soon do you see warning signs of a TPK?

[Bullgrit]

When talking about TPKs, many people comment that they avoid, or try to avoid them. They capture the PCs or pull out some other "penalty" for failure.

In my experience with TPKs -- and I've DMed over a few in my 30 years of D&D -- there really aren't many early warning signs that one is coming. I've seen combats go from "challenging fight" to "Total Party Kill" in 3 rounds. Or even less. Hell, I've seen combats go from "supposed to be a cake walk" to TPK.

Just like we've all seen parties defeat the BBEG with one lucky shot/spell in the first rounds of a fight. Just like we've all seen parties on the brink of losing, suddenly come back and win. Sometimes the situation just bottoms out suddenly and I don't realize this *is it* until suddenly I see that *was it*.

As a DM, what warning signs have you seen to alert you that a TPK is going to happen before there's no time left to think about how to prevent it?

As a Player, do you regularly have a plan for avoiding a TPK -- even if it's just an escape plan for your PC only?

What are some of the most dramatic "suddenly it's a TPK" moments you've been a part of?

Bullgrit

 

[the Jester]

My last tpk had several one major warning sign: the party's two clerics (one of whom was one of the tanks, too, multiclassed templar type pc in 3.5) split off from the rest of the group.

Welp, that was all she wrote.

 

[billd91]

The Call of Cthulhu TPK came on a bit suddenly. I didn't really expect the professor to turn his shotgun on the guy with the lit stick of dynamite.

 

[Bullgrit]

the party's two clerics (one of whom was one of the tanks, too, multiclassed templar type pc in 3.5) split off from the rest of the group.

When that split happened, was there anything you could have done to mitigate or prevent or redirect the coming TPK?

Edit: hehe -- "split happens"

Bullgrit

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

Generally speaking, if characters are low on hit points and the bad guys aren't, then one character falls...a TPK is close behind for my groups. I've never had players who, as a group, run away to fight another day. They always fight to the bitter end.

 

[ggroy]

- Players are almost out of healing surges, and no healing potions left.
- The players are trapped in an area, with no easy routes of running away.

 

[Mika]

In our nearly 2 years of playing 4E, I have noticed that we have had many battles where we feared that we were in for a TPK but it didn't happen. I don't know whether we have a really sneaky but merciful DM or we just feared that we were in worse shape than we actually were in.

 

[Fifth Element]

It can be very difficult to make the call in 4E. 4E characters are very resilient, and a group can recover from being in a very bad position to a good one in a relatively short time.

 

[Bullgrit]

In our nearly 2 years of playing 4E, I have noticed that we have had many battles where we feared that we were in for a TPK but it didn't happen. I don't know whether we have a really sneaky but merciful DM or we just feared that we were in worse shape than we actually were in.

When the group thought they were headed for a TPK, did the group, or any individual, do anything to stop it? Retreat or anything?

I've never had players who, as a group, run away to fight another day. They always fight to the bitter end.

This.

Bullgrit

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Though I have only been in one TPK in my 30+ year history in D&D, I've been in several close calls.

For me, the warning is "I got nothing I can do to help" in the situation. For instance, I'm out of ranged attacks and we're facing a flying opponent. Or the foe is immune to my melee attacks. Or I memorized a bunch of Fire spells and we're fighting something immune to fire.

Because, in those situations, I'm usually not the only one in that kind of situation, and that means the party's strength is effectively reduced as if my PC (and any others in the same situation) is already down.