How stupid is stupid?

[Nyaricus]

An INT 6 warrior is a very effective hammer. Problem being that to him, every problem looks like a nail ...

lol

 

[arscott]

Past official sources have converted Int x 10 = IQ, it's a better & simpler way to do it. IQ 60 is pretty stupid. See here: http://www.superdan.net/dndmisc/int_iq.html

Official or not, it's a poor estimate made by people who don't really understand the IQ system.

There are about 330 people worldwide with an IQ of 180 or better. And that's on a planet with six and a half billion people. In a fantasy world with a much lower population there would be even fewer than that (For instance, there'd be about 1 person with INT 18 from the entire continent of Khorvaire, the main continent in Eberron)

Unless we're to believe that fantasy worlds are populated by folks who see Mensa as a club for idiots, I think it's safe to say that the INT x 10 standard is just plain wrong.


If you assume that the distribution of INT scores are what you'd expect after rolling 3d6 a bunch of times, and compare that to the distribution of IQ scores, then you'll get each point of INT being worth 5 points of IQ, not 10.

So the guy with the 6 INT will have an IQ of 75-80. That's not smart, but it's also not borderline retarded either.

Here's the full breakdown:

INT IQ
03 60-65
04 65-70
05 70-75
06 75-80
07 80-85
08 85-90
09 90-95
10 95-100
11 100-105
12 105-110
13 110-115
14 115-120
15 120-125
16 125-130
17 130-135
18 135-140

Using that guideline, about 9% of the population have an INT of 6 or less. So think about you and 10 other people you know. unless your aquantainces are abnormally smart, abnormally stupid, or abnormally average, the dumbest person in that group is likely an INT 6.

 

[Rystil Arden]

arscott--I'd say that your scale is much better than score x 10 for the upper end, but the lower end of your scale does not go low enough: I know people with IQ in the range you attribute to Int 3, and they are much much smarter than animals. I don't think the scale of Int to IQ needs to be constant both ways from average. Int 10 is average (and it is chilling, at least for me, to see just how low the average is at certain tasks). Int 6 is exactly halfway in between average human intelligence and an animal on the scale.

IQ 70-80 is borderline of a deficiency, so that seems about right for Int 8. 60 to 70 is mild disability:

In early childhood mild disability (IQ 60–70) may not be obvious, and may not be diagnosed until they begin school. Even when poor academic performance is recognized, it may take expert assessment to distinguish mild mental disability from learning disability or behavior problems. As they become adults, many people can live independently and may be considered by others in their community as "slow" rather than "retarded".

Seems about right for 6 to 7 Int to me.

Then 50-60:

Moderate disability (IQ 50–60) is nearly always obvious within the first years of life. These people will encounter difficulty in school, at home, and in the community. In many cases they will need to join special, usually separate, classes in school, but they can still progress to become functioning members of society. As adults they may live with their parents, in a supportive group home, or even semi-independently with significant supportive services to help them, for example, manage their finances.

seems right for 5 or 6. This is also known as mild mental retardation and indicates adult mental age of about eight to twelve. Still looks good for 5 or 6.

Now let's look at 20 or below: Profound Mental Retardation--indicates mental age of a two-year-old or below. Seems about right for a 2 Int--this is generally an Int score for animals only.

 

[awayfarer]

WahneLigon, that sounds by and large how I'm playing him. His vocabulary is better than a few words though they are all simple. I think some allowances have to be made to play and idiot character and not irritate everyone in the group.

Funnily enough he has learned to read celestial through magic means. I'm not sure that he actually understands that he's reading.

 

[Pbartender]

To look at it another way...

Character with a 6 Intelligence will be just as stupid as a character with a 15 Intelligence is smart.

 

[WayneLigon]

WahneLigon, that sounds by and large how I'm playing him. His vocabulary is better than a few words though they are all simple. I think some allowances have to be made to play and idiot character and not irritate everyone in the group.

Very good that you recognize that Some people never do.

Funnily enough he has learned to read celestial through magic means. I'm not sure that he actually understands that he's reading.

I could actually see that. I generally see the various Outsider tongues as purer and much more elemental than terrestrial languages, so they would actually make more sense to someone of a lower intelligence. It's kind of a bizarre concept to try and get across this early in the morning, but it's like.. the Outsider languages are closer to instinct, and the stupid character actually has less to 'unlearn' in learning them

 

[Rel]

To look at it another way...

Character with a 6 Intelligence will be just as stupid as a character with a 15 Intelligence is smart.

This is how I guage it as well.

On any Intelligence check, the character with a 15 Int is 20% more likely to get the answer right than the 6 Int character. That's not a vast difference. Though I would also point out that the character with 15 Int will have a broader knowledge base (because they have more skill points) than the 6 Int character.

 

[arscott]

arscott--I'd say that your scale is much better than score x 10 for the upper end, but the lower end of your scale does not go low enough: I know people with IQ in the range you attribute to Int 3, and they are much much smarter than animals. I don't think the scale of Int to IQ needs to be constant both ways from average. Int 10 is average (and it is chilling, at least for me, to see just how low the average is at certain tasks). Int 6 is exactly halfway in between average human intelligence and an animal on the scale.

IQ 70-80 is borderline of a deficiency, so that seems about right for Int 8. 60 to 70 is mild disability: Seems about right for 6 to 7 Int to me.

Then 50-60: seems right for 5 or 6. This is also known as mild mental retardation and indicates adult mental age of about eight to twelve. Still looks good for 5 or 6.

Now let's look at 20 or below: Profound Mental Retardation--indicates mental age of a two-year-old or below. Seems about right for a 2 Int--this is generally an Int score for animals only.

I think that's just a problem with the vast differences between animal intelligences that must be fit into INT 1 and INT 2. According to her keepers, Koko the gorilla has an IQ of 70-85. On the other hand, octopi and squids are probably not much smarter than INT-- insects.

Also, don't sell animals short. Someone with IQ of 40 or below just isn't capable of functioning without major assistance, but animals can function just fine.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think that's just a problem with the vast differences between animal intelligences that must be fit into INT 1 and INT 2. According to her keepers, Koko the gorilla has an IQ of 70-85. On the other hand, octopi and squids are probably not much smarter than INT-- insects.

I've been led to believe that octopuses are actually quite clever, more on the level of a dog or cat.

 

[arscott]

Possibly. I wasn't really able to find good info on cepholopod intelligence. Are squid likewise gifted? or are they the dumb cousins?