D&D 5E How the crap do you explain the rogue's Evasion ability?

[UngainlyTitan]

There was a discussion* not very long ago** about the nature of damage and hit points. Folks seem to be divided*** into three**** groups on the matter.

The first group insists that hit points represent the amount of physical damage a body or object can take before falling unconscious or breaking apart. That fireball burns you a lot, or it burns you only a little, or it didn't burn you at all, but the point is that fireballs always burn you. They don't scare you or exhaust you or bum you out.

The second group insists that hit points are more abstract, that they represent an aggregation of physical, psychological, and physiological effects that can vary depending on the situation (usually by how the target was affected). Did you take full damage? It probably burned you. Partial damage? Maybe you're just shook. Do you feel better after the cleric healed you? The magic heals your burns. Do you feel better after a long rest? It was probably just exhaustion or something.

The third group mostly just shakes their heads, crosses off one number and writes down a new number, and tries not to think about it too much. Damage and hit points and ability scores and stuff are all just points that move around behind the scenes, and none of them really "make sense" from a narrative perspective...so they try to stay immersed in the story and not let the math district them.

I'm usually in the third camp as a player, and the first camp when I'm a DM (I'm fickle). But really, all three are perfectly acceptable if you want my honest opinion.

-----

*argument
**every three months
***willing to die on this hill
****at least

A fair summary, my period of dying on that hill was close to 20 years ago on this site. I am on the abstract side, don't think too hard about it.

 

[Shiroiken]

Like HP, this is where there's a disconnect between simulationist and gamist. A combat round isn't static, despite the fact that we break the round up into turns. Using the 6 second turn setup that we've had since 3E, you can't have everything happen simultaneously in play, as that would be a chaotic mess. Instead we have to reconcile the game mechanics with the story effect. While mechanically a character waits for their turn, story-wise everyone is acting all at the same time during that six seconds.

In this particular case, the rogue IS moving out the way, either dropping prone, tumbling to the side, ducking behind some cover, but mechanically they stay in the same space, which is also an abstract concept. Their move on the previous turn or following turn could represent the movement that dodging took. If no move takes place, they simply moved back to that space instead.

I had a rogue in a five foot wide corridor, no exits, no cover, nothing, and a mage dropped an 8th level spell on him, filling the entire corridor with napalm. No damage. Thanks, D&D.

Actually D&D gives you the tool to correct this: a DM. A point of a DM is to handle silly situations like this (unless everyone wants silly of course).

AD&D was pretty clear that a DM could deny any saving throw. I had a magic-user cast fireball in a 15x20 ft room at a range of 1 foot. They were surrounded by trolls coming in through one-way portals, and all their henchmen were dead. Fearing they'd soon be the same, he cast his fireball, killing himself, the cleric, and the other magic-user. The paladin survived, then had to go about the process of getting them all raised.

 

[Flamestrike]

The explosions happen right behind the rogue, and they are calmly walking away.

While a flock of doves spread out behind them in slo-mo.

 

[Democratus]

Oh it filled the corridor. The DM was quite clear. There was nowhere to hide except fall flat. Which, apparently, is enough to dodge napalm. I would have been absolutely fine with him ruling it as an autofail save. It made no sense to escape unscathed.

That's exactly what I meant. The DM gave a bad description. Since a dex save would result in half damage for a normal character - we have already established that the damage effect is not uniform. And since the rogue can Evade damage without moving more than 5 feet, there were clearly spots in the area where someone could avoid damage alltogether.

Giving a description that is in contradiction to the abilities of the characters means it is a flawed description.

 

[turnip_farmer]

**every three months

...for the last five decades.

I've got some old White Dwarf magazines from the seventies where people in the letters pages get quite worked up over the question of how someone could survive fire breath to the face in a narrow dungeon corridor!

 

[Ath-kethin]

Typically, I refer all questions about things like this to the title of the book in which the rule is found. I find that approach covers a LOT of bases.

 

[jasper]

How the crap do you explain the rogue's Evasion ability?

The default explanation is right there in the ability text: “you nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects.” However, that never quite fit the picture in my head. Leaping away from explosions and action-rolling like Indy are perfectly cromulent, but both maneuvers require you to actually move. The rogues of the world dodge in place, taking not so much as a 5′ step to get clear of danger. It’s like the end of Duck Dodgers, with world-shaking fireballs conveniently missing the plucky protagonist.

I’ll be the first to admit that this is a bit of a non-problem. Evasion is a fairly straightforward ability after all. But in the interest of making amusing headcanon, how do you like to describe/explain evasion? How is the rogue standing at the bottom of the crater while everyone else is roasted?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

As wonder woman said to Bart. A wizard did it.

 

[Yaarel]

You can't explain how a fireball harms everyone else but the rogue, without moving an inch, stands unharmed. So, easier to explain that HP is an abstract wherein you aren't actually taking real, potentially lethal damage, to your body. Your luck is running out, you're getting worn down, your arms are tired, whatever. That fireball that exploded over everyone's heads left a safe zone on the floor. You all took cover, but it scorched the air and drained your moisture and you're weakened a bit, except the rogue who through uncanny ways handled it better. If the fireball drops you to 0 HP, then yeah, you didn't get down in time.

These are Strength checks, for jump.

 

[Nebulous]

That's exactly what I meant. The DM gave a bad description. Since a dex save would result in half damage for a normal character - we have already established that the damage effect is not uniform. And since the rogue can Evade damage without moving more than 5 feet, there were clearly spots in the area where someone could avoid damage alltogether.

Giving a description that is in contradiction to the abilities of the characters means it is a flawed description.

Or, maybe this just a game and it doesn't matter if it's realistic. I'm going with that.

 

[AmerginLiath]

Evasion works in D&D the same way that Hit Points works in D&D: the physics are different. I’m not even referring to Magic existing, but that the characters and the world around them aren’t made of matter and molecules and atoms. It’s a universe where everything is built of elements like Pythagoras or Aristotle would conjecture (of course the advanced fighter is more powerful, he contains more fire and air now, raising him closer to the heavens!). If anything, think of Evasion more like a chemical reaction than a physical reaction, with the elements of the rogue sliding through the energies of the attack without being affected, rising and falling by a moment’s fortune.