How to deal dexterity damage?

[delericho]

Consider a Sword of Spell Storing, and put Ray of Clumsiness into it.

Doesn't work. The spell storing quality only allows the weapon to accept a 'targetted' spell. Ray of clumsiness is, in fact, not a targetted spell (Effect: ray), so isn't eligible for use here.

The spell does a Dex penalty of D6 +1 per two caster levels (Maximum +5). Empowering it can make it instantly disabling to a lot of people. Remember that, while a Ring of Spell Storing always stores the spell at the minimum caster level needed to cast it, Spell Storing weapons don't have that caveat.

So empowered, even at 1st level caster, does a minimum of 10 Dex.

I'm not sure how you get this, either. Empower spell multiplies the variable components of the spell effect by 1.5. So, that 1d6 gets multiplied, not the full effect of the spell. And the minimum of 1d6 x 1.5 is... 1 (fractions round down). Of course, you then add half the caster level (again, rounded down), but that still doesn't get you close to a minimum of 10!

 

[delericho]

Edit: duplicate post.

 

[Greenfield]

Doesn't work. The spell storing quality only allows the weapon to accept a 'targetted' spell. Ray of clumsiness is, in fact, not a targetted spell (Effect: ray), so isn't eligible for use here.

Ray effects are single target, i.e. targeted spells, as opposed to area effects. So yes, they work with a Spell Storing Weapon.

I'm not sure how you get this, either. Empower spell multiplies the variable components of the spell effect by 1.5. So, that 1d6 gets multiplied, not the full effect of the spell. And the minimum of 1d6 x 1.5 is... 1 (fractions round down). Of course, you then add half the caster level (again, rounded down), but that still doesn't get you close to a minimum of 10!

Now that's an interesting question.

Empower Spell says that all "variable, numeric effects" of a spell are increased by half.

The damage or drain is variable and numeric, but only part of it is actually variable. While I place no great faith in the Sage, I do recall him clarifying this to say that the entire numeric effect is increased when spells include a fixed amount as well as a random amount.

Now consider a literal interpretation of "variable". A Fireball rolls a number of D6, from 5 to 10 depending on the caster level. Standard reading would say that each of those dice gets a 50% bump. But isn't the number of die itself a variable, based on level? Now, nobody I know would allow that feat to double-bump the results, but taken literally as written, it should.

That's a tangent though, so let's not go there. To the best of my knowledge, the entire effect is multiplied.

 

[delericho]

Ray effects are single target, i.e. targeted spells, as opposed to area effects. So yes, they work with a Spell Storing Weapon.

No, this is incorrect. Per the SRD:

"Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at."

The emphasis is mine, but notice the distinction there - a Ray spell is explicitly different from a targetted spell.

Now that's an interesting question.

Empower Spell says that all "variable, numeric effects" of a spell are increased by half.

The damage or drain is variable and numeric, but only part of it is actually variable. While I place no great faith in the Sage, I do recall him clarifying this to say that the entire numeric effect is increased when spells include a fixed amount as well as a random amount.

Well, fair enough. But even if you take it thus, a 1st level caster still only does (1d6) x 1.5 damage, which is nowhere near a minimum of 10 - the caster level would need to be at least 2 before the level-based portion could have any effect (and even then, it would depend on the number rolled on the die).

Now consider a literal interpretation of "variable". A Fireball rolls a number of D6, from 5 to 10 depending on the caster level. Standard reading would say that each of those dice gets a 50% bump.

Well, either each die individually, or the pool as a whole. Given that all the fractions round down, the latter is actually the more generous interpretation, as well as the one I'd go for.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

The catch with Empower Spell is that it gives an example: An Empowered Magic Missile does (1d4+1)*1.5 damage, as the example "For example, an empowered magic missile deals 1-1/2 times its normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile)." shows. Going by the example, it's not just the dice themselves that get multiplied, but also any additional numbers on top of them that are listed in the spell entry itself.

Thus, the reasoning for Ray of Clumsiness doing a minimum of something more than 1 is that the Empower counts not only the 1d6, but also the +1 per 2 caster levels up to 1d6+5. Thus, even a minimum roll of 1 would result in 6 before Empower, for a 9 as the end result (not 10 though). But Ray of Clumsiness doesn't do damage in the first place and can't totally disable something since it's a penalty to Dex, not Dex damage.

 

[Greenfield]

Well, fair enough. But even if you take it thus, a 1st level caster still only does (1d6) x 1.5 damage, which is nowhere near a minimum of 10 - the caster level would need to be at least 2 before the level-based portion could have any effect (and even then, it would depend on the number rolled on the die).

Why would you presume a 1st level caster? If your group is of a level to own this grade of magic weapon, your party caster isn't 1st level.

And, as noted, while Spell Storing Rings have a limitation that all spells are stored at minimum caster level, the description of the weapon property makes no such mention. Spells go into those at full caster level.

<EDIT>Regarding targeted spells: Ray spells (Disintegrate is a good example) make reference to targeted object or creature, so I will continue to regard them as Targeted spells. YMMV, of course. </Edit>

 

[delericho]

Why would you presume a 1st level caster?

Because...

So empowered, even at 1st level caster, does a minimum of 10 Dex.

Certainly, for higher level casters, there would be a higher minimum.