D&D 5E How to easily and simply balance all the short rest classes

[Cap'n Kobold]

I think this would be abused. An 11th level fighter with a 3-level Ranger dip could do 20 attacks in 3 rounds of combat.

An 11th level Wizard with a 3-level Sorceror dip could do 22 attacks in 4 rounds of combat, all with advantage, all dealing more damage than the fighter/ranger, suffering no attacks of opportunity from moving between targets and with disadvantage to hit them.

Think about that - This isn't AoE damage, where casters seem to be meant to shine. In a situation involving moving around and making melee attacks, the caster is better than your suggested martial.

Short rest abilities are short rest limited for a reason.

Often because they are only 1/3rd the power of a long-rest ability.

TBH I've never seen it as a problem. Sure a majority of the time they have less uses than a long rest character, but on the other hand on long adventuring days they can top up pretty easily.

The 2 short rests and 6 combatsper day is supposed to be an average and as a mean excluding days with no combat I would say it is probably accurate. The median is lower than that - probably more like 2-3 combats and 0-1 short rests. But there is a floor of zero and really no upper bounds and on those long days short rest classes are much better.

Most groups seem to run off less than 5 combats a day with a single short rest. Having the occasional 12-encounter, 3 short-rest marathon does not bring the average back to the 2-SR day.

 

[TwoSix]

So what is Snarf's Simplified Solution to tables with Short Rest problems? Simple- any class ability premised on a short rest gets trasmogrified into a Long Rest ability, but with 3x the number of uses. So Monks get 3x the ki. Warlocks get 3x the spells. Fighters get 3x the second winds and action surge. And so on.

It's been proposed before. The general issue is that it increase the potential of 5MWD, and it also makes the short rest classes quite a bit more flexible, possibly too flexible. A warlock with 9 5th level spell slots at 11th level is pretty strong.

Possible solutions I like:

1) Have short rest time increase every time one is taken. 1st short rest is a minute, 2nd is 10 min, 3rd is an hour, every additional rest takes one additional hour.
2) Have shorter short rests (between 1-10 minutes), but the characters must spend one Hit Die during the short rest.
3) Have more martial abilities recharge upon initiative roll. One action surge per initiative roll, or recharge 3 ki upon initiative roll.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Players have to pay the DM $60 each time they take a Long Rest, but get a $20 discount for each Short Rest they take first.

This heavily disincentives the DM letting you get a short rest.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It's been proposed before. The general issue is that it increase the potential of 5MWD, and it also makes the short rest classes quite a bit more flexible, possibly too flexible. A warlock with 9 5th level spell slots at 11th level is pretty strong.

I don't disagree ... but at 11th level, a Wizard gets a ton of spells from across the spectrum, as well as arcane recovery (which would be an additional 3 fifth level spells.

... and the difference, again, is that the Wizard gets to blow out all their spells when they want to when the party doesn't take a short rest. That's the key difference.

I often see this issue raised (this was also done by others) ... what about the short rest class going "Nova." At high levels? And I'm like ... well, what if? Do you mean that they will be like a Paladin, having to choose if they're going to go all smite-y in this combat, or save it up for later? Or like a Wizard, blowing all their spells now?

The resources were calculated on a basis that they would get 2 short rests ... and if they do, that's awesome! I love short rest characters. But when they don't, they seem dramatically underpowered. And the more short-rest dependent the class is, they worse it becomes.

I honestly think that 90% of monk criticisms, for example, would be cured by just switching ki to 3x and long rest. They are probably the single class that's the most affected, btw. Warlocks have (arguably) the best cantrip and invocations. Fighters are great at combat without their short rest abilities. Monks, though, are 100% dependent on a short-rest mechanic to be useful.

Possible solutions I like:

1) Have short rest time increase every time one is taken. 1st short rest is a minute, 2nd is 10 min, 3rd is an hour, every additional rest takes one additional hour.
2) Have shorter short rests (between 1-10 minutes), but the characters must spend one Hit Die during the short rest.
3) Have more martial abilities recharge upon initiative roll. One action surge per initiative roll, or recharge 3 ki upon initiative roll.

Personally, I just like the idea of having short rests ... but I've seen too many complaints, which is why I proposed the simplest way possible to get around the issue for tables that have it.

But otherwise, I'd propose something similar to, "You can take two short rests per long rest, but you must take an minute to do so" (in order to avoid mid-combat short rests).

 

[TwoSix]

Personally, I just like the idea of having short rests ... but I've seen too many complaints, which is why I proposed the simplest way possible to get around the issue for tables that have it.

But otherwise, I'd propose something similar to, "You can take two short rests per long rest, but you must take an minute to do so" (in order to avoid mid-combat short rests).

I like short rests too; if anything, I wish more mechanics were pushed into short rests and out of long rests. But it doesn't look like the game is trending that way.

 

[Quickleaf]

It's an elegant hack. How would things that say "short or long rest" work, such as the druid's Wild Shape feature, which is 2x/short or long rest?

Is that treated as being a short rest recharging power?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It's an elegant hack. How would things that say "short or long rest" work, such as the druid's Wild Shape feature, which is 2x/short or long rest?

Is that treated as being a short rest recharging power?

Any ability that says "short or long rest" is actually a short rest power. All short rest powers have that language.

Because it allows you to recharge on a short rest, but it includes the long rest language as well. Cf. Monk Ki-

When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself.

 

[Blue]

So what is Snarf's Simplified Solution to tables with Short Rest problems? Simple- any class ability premised on a short rest gets trasmogrified into a Long Rest ability, but with 3x the number of uses. So Monks get 3x the ki. Warlocks get 3x the spells. Fighters get 3x the second winds and action surge. And so on.

Superficially this works, but superficial doesn't describe your normal analysis. Concerns I have for where it doesn't work are primarily but not exclusively around novas.

A short rest character has a limited amount they can bring to any specific challenge. Being able to bring up to three times that amount really gives a spike much more powerful then they normally have. A monk going against a solo foe with legendary resistance which for every attack (including flurries) every turn is able to deliver a stunning fist will quickly burn though legendaries resistances and sooner or later have one not saved past that and then everyone can pile on the Advantage-to-Hit train. Warlocks, with reliable at-will powers, are even more at an advantage for being able to choose the density of spells for any particular combat, from many to none. Think of a samurai fighter who can action surge three rounds in a row, making all attacks on them at advantage - that's a really useful thing to do in a big combat, and no one will accuse the fighter of losing the majority of it's power when it it focusing on at-wills in other encounters.

The other area of concern is more warlock than the others, but it's about utility uses of short-rest-recovery abilities. Often in non-combat situations the right spell can be a big help, and also when not in combat there's a greater chance of getting a short rest before needing more. So one of the warlock's subtle strengths is with spells useful out-of-combat for overcoming challenges, where they can cast and recover without reducing combat resources at all.

 

[Mach5RR]

Why not just limit the benefits of short rests equal to the proficiency bonus? With the exception of recovery dice which can be used across an unlimited amount of short rests.

So a 1st level character can only gain the benefits of two short rests before having to perform a long rest while a 17th level character can benefits from six short rests. Both can rest beyond these to gain the benefit of recovery dice.

This way you are limiting short rest characters, but you aren't dumping all their abilities into one pool that they can quickly burn through.