How to influence a group's rules usage without alienating them?

[the Jester]

Just lie, it will be the easiest thing.

Screw that. Ignoring the fact that you're starting a relationship with this group dishonestly and that's a total dick thing to do in the first place, you WILL get caught out and lose your group.

 

[Dausuul]

How about changing your ways, rather than trying to blame others? No offense here, but thats not the attitude to have. You can't join a group and expect them to change their established ways. You need to adapt.

I think Kzach is taking the mickey. Hard to tell for sure.

[size=-2]For those not familiar with British slang, "taking the mickey" means "deliberately provoking in a friendly way." The British have awesome slang. That said, I cannot guarantee that this usage is current; it may be the equivalent of referring to something as "radical."[/size]

 

[Kzach]

Just lie, it will be the easiest thing.

Not as easy as you might think. I'm a terrible liar. Well, not so much on the internet as that's far easier, but in person I'm painfully honest even to my own detriment. It's not even a belief, it's just fundamentally who I am. Lying for me is incredibly difficult and whenever I try, I always trip myself up and get caught out. So I've just found it's easier never to lie.

I think Kzach is taking the mickey. Hard to tell for sure.

[size=-2]For those not familiar with British slang, "taking the mickey" means "deliberately provoking in a friendly way." The British have awesome slang. That said, I cannot guarantee that this usage is current; it may be the equivalent of referring to something as "radical."[/size]

Maybe a little...

...but I'm taking it out on myself so it's all kosher

 

[Diamond Cross]

Hmmmm.... A kosher mickey?

???

 

[Oryan77]

I left in my local gaming store and when the owner couldn't pay the rent the landlord changed the locks and put everything in storage until the owner can pay (it's been two years now).

Sounds like you are being lied to.

Unless the landlord already went to court over it, it's illegal for any landlord to lock a tenant out even if the tenant isn't paying rent.

And, unless the landlord put an entire stores worth of inventory in his own storage unit, it's going to cost a couple hundred bucks a month to rent a storage unit. I doubt a landlord is going to pay that bill for 2 years.

I bet the store owner sold his inventory along with your books. Your books are long gone.

 

[Stumblewyk]

I asked, but she turned me down. And I'd already bought the corsage

That's a shame. I was going to suggest pulling out your PHB, dusting it off, sucking it up, and playing a PHB-only PC for a while. During play, be cooperative, demonstrate your superior rules knowledge, while be flexible enough to say "I've always done things like this, but it's interesting to see how you guys interpret things."

I basically did a similar thing but kind of opposite, and quite by accident, slowly started noticing my new group looking to me for rules clarifications, errata information, and judgement calls. The first time it happened I almost didn't realize they were asking me for a ruling.

I joined the group with a much more casual gaming background, and more of an interest in story and fun than rules (...a very RAI approach, IMO). They played a VERY rules-heavy game (...very RAW). Whenever things ended up being ruled in a way I disagreed with, I'd often remark (before I had time to shut my yap and let it slide) about how I'd have adjudicated things, or built a character, what-have-you. But I was always careful to follow it up with something like, "but I'm happy to do things your way. I'm always interested in trying different things out."

Now, it's entirely possible they just go tired of hearing me say "Huh..." but eventually they started looking to me for how to adjudicate a tricky situation. Or I'd get an email about a potential new feat or power for one of their PCs. Now, something will come up in game, and one of the usual DMs will occasionally pause, and ask what I'd do in a similar situation in one of my games when there's a gray area.

The group, and I, eventually found an equilibrium between RAW and RAI. It works for us, and we have a very enjoyable game, even if I occasionally gripe about an interpretation that went counter to my (clearly superior!) argument.

 

[dagger]

Unless the landlord already went to court over it, it's illegal for any landlord to lock a tenant out even if the tenant isn't paying rent.

It depends on where you live.

 

[Kzach]

I joined the group with a much more casual gaming background, and more of an interest in story and fun than rules (...a very RAI approach, IMO). They played a VERY rules-heavy game (...very RAW). Whenever things ended up being ruled in a way I disagreed with, I'd often remark (before I had time to shut my yap and let it slide) about how I'd have adjudicated things, or built a character, what-have-you. But I was always careful to follow it up with something like, "but I'm happy to do things your way. I'm always interested in trying different things out."

Huh.

Funnily enough, this is the post that most puts it into perspective for me. I've had players like this as a DM and every single time, I've kicked them out of the group.

I think I'll just shut-up and play with their rules.

 

[Stumblewyk]

Yeah, I mean, the trick is doing it without being a prick about it I think. I like to think I'm a pretty easy-going guy, so even when I wanted to pull my own hair about stuff they were doing, and piped up out loud before I could keep my trap shut, I did it in a way that made it clear I respected their approach, because it was *their* game. It's worked for us, I think. And when I got my turn behind the screen, I did things my way, and the other players enjoyed (I think) the change of approach for a little while.

 

[Kzach]

Yeah, I mean, the trick is doing it without being a prick about it I think.

From my perspective I don't care how it's done; it rubs me the wrong way no matter how polite the smile behind it.

Then again, that's how I view everything. I don't believe in diplomacy. Just because someone says they hate you or you're an idiot in a nice way, doesn't change the message. In fact, this has often been a sticking point with me and many people. What other people either don't see or don't choose to see, I cut right through the BS and straight to the heart of things and see comments and behaviors for what they are rather than as what they're presented to be.

To me, you're undermining not only my authority as a DM, but you're saying you could do it better and should be doing it. But most of the time the people who behave like this don't have the guts, determination or even desire to be the DM, they just want to point out that they could, and if they did, they'd do it better.

Now that I realise I would essentially be doing that and I recall just how incredibly annoying it is from a DM's perspective, not to mention aggravating, I wouldn't want to inflict that on another DM.