How to kill a blue dragon?

[Orcus Porkus]

What he wouldn't do is what was described, and that's hover 20 squares up for a significant amount of time engaging in a long term sniping battle with the party ranger.

Yes that's undraconic.

page 46 of the Draconomicon recommends to definitely use Hit-and-Run tactics, but tone it down when it becomes too frustrating, and let the dragon come down, driven by "bloodlust, impatience, or pride".

So for me as DM when I run a blue dragon, I'll definitely torture the PC's a little with the ranged at-will lightning attacks, come down for a bite or two, a breath attack and frightful presence, and then just take off and leave them in fear, only to return later, hahaha. Eventually there will be a melee showdown.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Yes that's undraconic.

page 46 of the Draconomicon recommends to definitely use Hit-and-Run tactics, but tone it down when it becomes too frustrating, and let the dragon come down, driven by "bloodlust, impatience, or pride".

So for me as DM when I run a blue dragon, I'll definitely torture the PC's a little with the ranged at-will lightning attacks, come down for a bite or two, a breath attack and frightful presence, and then just take off and leave them in fear, only to return later, hahaha. Eventually there will be a melee showdown.

Yeah, and that sort of an encounter would be fair for PC's of that level. They don't have to be able to fly or attack at 20+ squares to engage the Dragon. They just have to survive the initial harrying, and then wait for the final assault.

The whole problem I had with the encounter before was the idea that the Dragon wouldn't come down. It doesn't make sense from a "fairness" standpoint to the PC's, and it doesn't make sense from a "flavor" or RP standpoint for the Dragon. It's just a DM being cruel.

 

[Engilbrand]

It's one of those hypothetical situations that shouldn't happen. The game is full of hypotheticals. Sure, you can have a dragon just hover and be annoying. But isn't that against the point of the dragon? Isn't it meant to blast from a distance, then fly down and scare the hell out of mere mortals while breathing fire or whatever on them? If I'm in a game and the DM acts like a douche, I call him on it. I've played in games like that before. I hate them. I stole players from the last game that I was in that was like that. They're no fun. Can a DM do that? Sure, but only until his players leave him.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

It's one of those hypothetical situations that shouldn't happen. The game is full of hypotheticals. Sure, you can have a dragon just hover and be annoying. But isn't that against the point of the dragon? Isn't it meant to blast from a distance, then fly down and scare the hell out of mere mortals while breathing fire or whatever on them? If I'm in a game and the DM acts like a douche, I call him on it. I've played in games like that before. I hate them. I stole players from the last game that I was in that was like that. They're no fun. Can a DM do that? Sure, but only until his players leave him.

You know, what triggered my OP was quite the opposite incident. We encountered a blue dragon, and it was a lame fight - the dragon didn't take off, and we surrounded him and slowly beat him to death. 4th level characters. It made me think: This can't be true, so I looked him up in the MM and realized that he is much more powerful.
Part of a dragon fight should ALWAYS be that he flies around, makes the PC's a little despaired not just because of the frightful presence.
My favorite act is to make him take off and go after those who snipe at him from the back, thinking they are safe.... what a nasty surprise!

 

[Wolf88]

plane sailing, what if i reflavoured the spell as creating the illusion of a chasm (or simply of firm, solid ground) not under but OVER the dragon and consequently the illusion of the very open sky below him? wouldnt that result in a sad dragon actually throwing himself on the real ground? (read falling prone) or at least trying to figure out why the hell he is standing upside down? (read immobilized)

as a "traditional style" DM would you allow this?
it keeps both the spirit, the flavor and the mechanics... and it's funny as hell to boot

 

[Derren]

It's one of those hypothetical situations that shouldn't happen. The game is full of hypotheticals. Sure, you can have a dragon just hover and be annoying. But isn't that against the point of the dragon? Isn't it meant to blast from a distance, then fly down and scare the hell out of mere mortals while breathing fire or whatever on them? If I'm in a game and the DM acts like a douche, I call him on it. I've played in games like that before. I hate them. I stole players from the last game that I was in that was like that. They're no fun. Can a DM do that? Sure, but only until his players leave him.

And I would be annoyed when the DM makes exactly that. Running a monster like a moron just so that the players get an easy win is extremely lame. A big part of the enjoyment I get from RPGs is solving problems with my character un a fantasy world. And that means that its my and the other players duty to find a way out of this situation. The DM should not solve this challenge for the PCs by letting the dragon act like an idiot, because its arrogant or some other lame and overused excuse.

About the spell, I wouldn't allow it to affect a flying creature. The spell is very specific in what it does. Sadly the "Say yes" principle seems to get turned more and more into "don't think about it, just roll" where only the rules text matter and nothing else.

To those who think that the spell should affect the dragon, would you also allow the Grease spell in 3E to trip a flying creature?

 

[DracoSuave]

About the spell, I wouldn't allow it to affect a flying creature. The spell is very specific in what it does. Sadly the "Say yes" principle seems to get turned more and more into "don't think about it, just roll" where only the rules text matter and nothing else.

To those who think that the spell should affect the dragon, would you also allow the Grease spell in 3E to trip a flying creature?

The spell creates an illusion of falling. Flying stuff is vulnerable to falling. It doesn't just create a chasm, it includes the psychic assault on their minds and the senses of accompanying vertigo, things that 'flying' does offer invulnerability to.

 

[Lizard]

Remember that by CustServ's (kinda dumb) ruling, anything that affects a square has infinite height, so Scorching Burst and Cloud of Daggers can still hit it out of the air. Not sure if there's much in the way of bursts or blasts for Clerics or Fighters at that level, though.

The FRACK?

Do you have a source for that ruling?

I've got some melee burst attacks I'd LOVE to use to knock down people flying above me. I want to make sure I have "official" backup when trying to pull that (bleep) off, though...

 

[Lizard]

.

About the spell, I wouldn't allow it to affect a flying creature. The spell is very specific in what it does. Sadly the "Say yes" principle seems to get turned more and more into "don't think about it, just roll" where only the rules text matter and nothing else.

To those who think that the spell should affect the dragon, would you also allow the Grease spell in 3E to trip a flying creature?

In 3e? Hell no.
In 4e? Sure.

I've finally figured out the Zen Of 4e. The powers/exploits/etc aren't "real". Youre character doesn't know Pinning Strike, or even Magic Missile. Rather, you, the player, have selected a set of Plot Powers. At various times, as defined by the rules, you can declare something has happened in the game world -- so-and-so takes 1d8 force damage, that creature suffers these game effects. Even the NAMES of the game effects don't matter -- a "trip" isn't a "trip", it's a set of specified conditions which are applied to the creature. How this "looks" and how these conditions got to be on the creature are entirely up in the air. In terms of what happens in-game, the character invoking the Plot Power might not even be the direct cause. For example, "Pinning Strike" on a flying creature with nothing nearby to "pin" it to. You invoke this Plot Power, and make the roll, and the creature suffers, say, a sudden pulled muscle, which deals the appropriate damage and makes it impossible for it to keep flying. "Magic Missile" could be a different "spell" every time, so long as it does the same type and quantity of damage. One time it might be a flying sword. The next round, you could cause a bubble of energy to explode and burst under someone's skin. The round after that, a small imp appears and bites at the target. Etc, etc, etc.

There is a complete and total disconnect between the rules of 4e, and the world in which the game occurs. Once you internalize that the rules make no sense, the rules start making sense. Hence, the Zen of 4e. You must accept the paradox.

 

[Nail]

So the lesson is apparently for everyone to carry around rope, javelins, longbows, and a 10' ladder.

Best quote of th' whole thread....