How would you aducate this anti-dragon tactic?

[Shellman]

I believe the DMG states blindsense can come in different forms. Echolocation for a bat or tremorsense for another creature. So what is the basis of the Dragon's blindsense.

The DMG states blindsense allows the Dragon to sense the presence of other creatures in range, it does not say anything about magical effects.

I do think that the dragon should be allowed a spell craft check. If it succeeds, then it would probably manuever to negate/ avoid the wizards tactic.

Assuming you rule the Dragon does not avoid the WoF because the Wizard is casting a readied spell, then I would assume the Dragon would take falling damage based on the distance traveled during that round. Calculating the damage as falling damage, but DR would apply.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hover clearly could not be used in this situation, as it takes a move action, wingover is unclear. Let's put it this way, if a readied action were triggered against a PC fighter while he was charging, would you allow him to cancel mid-charge and perorm a free action? That is what is being suggested that the dragon could do with wingover.

No - this is NOT the same. Charge is an additional level of commitment beyond a double move. You're moving fast enough to get in not only a double move, but also an attack.

Run is in the same boat. Both of them specifically require all movement to be straight line.

A dragon executing either of those when the wall goes up will not be able to slow or otherwise change direction. Unless he has "fleet of foot" or something.

My argument applies to flying individuals moving. I wouldn't expect a character to double move around a corner and accidentally walk into a wall that was there, so I wouldn't expect a character to walk into a suddenly appearing wall. If for some reason he had problems turning or maneuvering (like he has a less-than-perfect maneuverability) I could envisage him involuntarily striking the wall.

Hence - the dragon avoids the wall or slows enough to reduce or negate the damage IF it's maneuverability allows and it is not running or charging. It gets no save otherwise. It likely falls to the ground next round unless it has hover or a good enough maneuverability to turn in place.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sorry, but a Wall of Force has no thickness, thus cannot be interacted with on edge at all.

Ok, so what happens when a creature flies into the edge of one, and then moves perpendicular to it? Half the creature cannot pass through the wall.

Personally, for game balance I'd suggest simply shunting the creature to one side or the other when it first hits the edge of the wall, but this is far from canon.

 

[Derren]

Hover would work fine as long the dragon has still a move action left when the wall is casted. Wingover would also work as the dragon can at any time simply turn around.

 

[KarinsDad]

Hover would work fine as long the dragon has still a move action left when the wall is casted. Wingover would also work as the dragon can at any time simply turn around.

I agree with Wingover.

I do not agree with Hover. The reason is that the Dragon is in "mid-move" when the wall appears in front of it. And unlike walking, a Dragon with poor maneuverability would have momentum. Hence, the reason the Wingover feat exists.

I would not give the equivalent of a free Wingover feat to a Dragon, just because it has the Hover feat. Otherwise, the utility of Wingover is greatly reduced if a Dragon could quasi-emulate it with Hover and a move action.

 

[Derren]

There is no momentum in D&D. Hover lets a dragon instantly stop.
Hover is not a free wingover, it requires a movement action which is a big difference. With the same reasoning you could say that beeing able to change direction at all while flying cheapens wingover because they both do the same thing.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I agree with Wingover.

I do not agree with Hover. The reason is that the Dragon is in "mid-move" when the wall appears in front of it. And unlike walking, a Dragon with poor maneuverability would have momentum. Hence, the reason the Wingover feat exists.

I would not give the equivalent of a free Wingover feat to a Dragon, just because it has the Hover feat. Otherwise, the utility of Wingover is greatly reduced if a Dragon could quasi-emulate it with Hover and a move action.

Yeah, cause we all know the primary reason for dragons to have wingover is to avoid invisible floating walls, and the primary reason for them to have hover is to replicate wingover.

The dragon's momentum is represented by the fact that he must have a move action left over in order to hover. Otherwise, if we're talking about momentum, then you should be able to cast the spell against a dragon AFTER he's made a double move (or charge, or whatever) on your own turn, and he'd STILL smash into it at top speed.

Which is not how D&D works.

 

[Bryan898]

Funny that this comes up. Last week my player used a similar tactic, except he dropped a prismatic wall in front of the dragon... I ruled that the dragon went through the wall. When you're charging I'd think it would be hard to instantly stop yourself, especially if you're particular angry, as said Black Dragon was.

 

[Gomez]

Interesting tactic. But I have a few questions.

1. What is the terran like? Plains, Woods?
2. Is the dragon flying low to the ground?
3. Why is the dragon flying about? Hunting? Enjoying the sunshine?
4. Does the dragon see the party?
5. Is the dragon flying directly towards the party?
6. Did the wizard make his save vs the dragon's Frightful Presence?

I am just concerned about the short range of the spell. Only 45'. If the dragon has any height at all then lets say 30' up then he is most likely to spot the party way before he comes in range of the wall.

 

[RigaMortus]

CMIIW but...

The Wall of Force needs to be "anchored" to the ground, right? You said the wall would be 30' high? Wouldn't the dragon be flying higher than 30' and use it's breath weapon? I am of the opinion to play dragons smart, and they should not enter melee unless they have to. Use the range from breath weapon and spells until you are "forced" to get into melee...