How would you feel?

[Mark]

It doesn't seem to be a question of levels at all. More of a matter of a DM not just detailing the situation, but also trying to tell players how to play their characters by telling them how they would react and feel.

This is not an uncommon DMing mistake. It's also a mistake sometimes made in professional adventure design. If a DM's experience with written modules includes adventures that do this, it can seem acceptable to a DM, though rarely with players. Further, if the DM's experience with the game has come from playing under other DMs who do this, for whatever reasons, it can become a habit with them as well.

Some key things to examine (in other DMs or introspectively as a DM) to determine if a DM has picked up this habit is in how a DM describes even the simplest of things. Does an opening door "creak ominously" or does it "creak while all else is silent"? Is an NPC "dark and stand-offish" or does he "make you feel awkward and fearful"? Does a creature "charge while you are in a dead end hallway" or does the creature "make you feel cornered"? While it can boil down to semantics in a lot of cases, it truly is a matter of denying a player's self-detemination in regard to their character.

I'd start from there when you open up the communication lines, which I entirely agree is necessary.

 

[d4]

i'd like to hear from the DM and the other players in the group.

any chance of getting them to comment on this thread?

(FWIW, i agree that no player should be dictating the actions of another player like that.)

 

[jdavis]

Close your eyes and imagine your on the Titanic sailing across the Atlantic. "Iceberg ahead!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Seriously I'd just quit now. You can talk to her and you can talk to the DM but because neither of them thought this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard to start with they probably won't understand your point and will think you are trying to "ruin the game". Even if you do get through to them that this is just plain wrong then it's just going to happen again and a again, till eventually they just think it's you that always complains. Sometimes people try little odd things and sometimes DMs just miss stuff, but this is so idiotic that it should be a red light beacon on how the whole game will go. Ask the DM why he doesn't have a problem with this, any answer that is not "I do have a problem I just don't know how to approach her yet" is a sure sign the whole thing is doomed to be a disaster. I've read enough warning signs in what you have said that I'd be reluctant to even show up for this game. If the DM saw this as OK then there is no telling what else he will think is ok, and as far as the player goes that sort of scares me.

may I ask what age range the group is?

 

[Magius del Cotto]

Personally, I'd talk to the DM and the Player about the history, and the fact that it doesn't fit with the idea everyone had about the feel of the campaign. If that didn't work, I'd suggest actually roleplaying through the encounter, to see how the party would have reacted to it. If he refuses, warn him that you will be roleplaying your character as if she had captured you and forced you to beg to be released, a grudge that would make the player feel threatened and nervous through the gaming session.
I'd explain that I, of course, don't want to create that kind of atmosphere for any player, but if something happened in the character's past to justify the feelings, I'm not going to tone them down for her sake. Now, of course, I don't know this GM, but depending on his relation to the player, I'd either play off the fact that this situation would be really tense and un-fun for the player, or that DMing a group that has two characters out for each other's blood would be a real fiasco. If you pull it off well, then you'll get the GM to agree to either ban the history (making the game fun for all again), or at least into roleplaying the encounter out (causing tensions in the group, though not as great as things would stand otherwise).
That is all.
Magius out.

 

[Xeriar]

just al has not seemed to mention one way or another about a few things...

Has this history been approved by the GM, or is it supposed to be a cooperative developement by the players completely out of the GM's hands?

Has the GM GMed before at all?

Does the group have experience playing with the player? Is this sort of bullying a common occurance?

 

[Kemrain]

I'm interested in seeing how this will turn out...

I didn't play in it, but I've been told extensively about a game played by some of my friends ages ago, in which many concepts (Slavery, Rape, etc.) simply did not exist in the gameworld because one player was unable to cope with them. After talking with her and hearing her explanation "The world is bad enough as it is, I do't need that stuff in my fantasy," I was fairly convinced that, though she believed this, there were other underlying issues that I shouldn't pry into.

This situation reminded me of that. Here we have one player doing something, seemingly with GM support, that none of the other players are comfortable with. The example above's player settled these issues by sitting and talking first wit hthe GM, then with the group, in an inteligent and calm manner, and the game lasted years and everyone playing (until the end) had lots of fun. (But this is neither here nore there...)

What I'm suggesting is sitting and talking about how you feel with the other players and the GM. Take turns, speak civily, don't raise your voice; this other player might (though I hope this isn't the case) not even realise what they're doing isn't cool.

The only way to solve this and remain a gaming group (if that's what you want to do, leaving in a huff is an option too...) is to discuss it, like Mouseferatu suggests.

- Kemrain the Unliscenced Social Worker Wannabe.

 

[dagger]

I and my fellow gamers don't get the opportunity very often with inner party strife to actually kill another players PC. We rarely have inner party strife in any of our games, but it has happened. It is even rarer that actual blows are exchanged. Personally, if I was in that situation, after a good laugh I would take advantage of this rare instance, and kill that players PC. Then I would be lauded as a true gaming hero by my fellow players and live in glory for the rest of the session.

 

[just__al]

just al has not seemed to mention one way or another about a few things...

Has this history been approved by the GM, or is it supposed to be a cooperative developement by the players completely out of the GM's hands?

Has the GM GMed before at all?

Does the group have experience playing with the player? Is this sort of bullying a common occurance?

The GM posted the character history on the campaign website. That's essentially approval. I haven't had the opportunity to discuss with the DM and I'm holding off until everybody is there on Saturday when we wrap up chargen. But she is anything but a bully. Just not the best gamer.

He has DM'd before just not 3E/3.5E

The player in question probably has no idea that this is a big faux pas. She's not a very experienced gamer. And, we've been playing 3.0 together for a year. Two different campaigns, one I just finished DMing and one another player ran first. She seldom can keep up with her options and has never made even passable good use of her characters spells when she played a druid or a cleric. I'm actually glad to see her playing a rogue because she'll be able to keep up (hopefully).

 

[Mark]

The GM posted the character history on the campaign website.

Link, please?

So, I'm gathering that this is just a case of a player who doesn't realize that creating a character background and dictating the backgrounds of other players is not a good idea. But at the same time the DM maybe should know better and for some reason has accepted this situation anyway?

 

[just__al]

Link, please?

So, I'm gathering that this is just a case of a player who doesn't realize that creating a character background and dictating the backgrounds of other players is not a good idea. But at the same time the DM maybe should know better and for some reason has accepted this situation anyway?

I'd rather not post the link as it's not my website.

However, here's the history. (followed by my character's history)

Hello, My name is Ella or as most call me L, you asked to hear all about me so here is my story.


I was raised by my family in Dalvin, a small farm town outside of Southfordshire. It was a pretty tight-knit Halfling community but so boring it hurt. My family weren't very good farmers ( at least that is what most believed, we really just hated farming) so we took on the role of minstrels, and travelled around the nearby communities. My family was known to entertain and keep up the spirits of those around us so they could happily toil the land. So at a very young age, I along with my five brothers and sisters, where trained in the bardic ways. I was always a limber little one so I quickly caught on to acrobatics with the somersaults, jumps, and flips ( not to mention that being the runt of my siblings I was the easiest to toss). I also caught on moderately well to the playing of the flute, I actually even mastered the art of playing it one handed ( which is no mean feat I must say and it did help me develop uses for that other hand).

But alas I was so bored with this small town rural life that it hurt, so when we next went for our annual visit to Southfordshire for a festival at which my family usually entertained, I opted to stay behind when it came time to return home. (Actually, I hid until they gave up looking for me). I was 8 at the time and quite sure of myself.

Well, I found out living on ones own in a large city isn't as easy as one might figure, though I was rather adept at it if I do say so myself. I decided that sneaking a bit here and there for my food was rather easy, especially using my entertaining to distract the hapless folk.

Unfortunately I was caught.

Sucked.

Luckily I was caught by one of the cities thieves' guild leaders, who decided that as I was getting very adept at sneaking food and cooper for my meals that I would make a grand new member to keep the thieves group, the Red Horses, entertained. (Though I thought they so could have come up with a better name).

I quickly moved up the ranks in the guild and learned the skills to become a pretty damn good thief, and thanks to my small size and nimbleness I was an asset to them. Soon I was acquiring more wealth then I knew what to do with, so I decided to take a small vacation and go on a spending spree with one of my fellow theives , a human named Roger. We acted well as a team; the father and his child, though I was no child at 16 by then.

We went to the city of Narnia and boy did we go on a spending spree. It was most wonderful, I even picked up a few knicknacks from a local gentry who happened to walk past me.

While in Narnia we heard of this now famous group of adventurers who were clearing the land of all the evil there abouts such as dragons, wolves, and thieves.

Well, Roger, poor weak fool, freaked and decided we needed to get back to Southfordshire as quick as we could to warn the guild, so we took a nice Magical jump back to Southfordshire. Ahhh the only way to travel. Everyone in the guild went up in arms about this group they had just begun to hear of as well, I guess news travels fast, and they were armoring up and preparing a defensive. Boring.

So, I decide that I will not allow my vacation to be cut short and that I will reunite with my family in Dalvin and show off my newfound wealth and talents. Alas, on arriving at my home town I am confronted with devastation. A dragon has attacked and ravaged the town. I go to work to put out the fires and bury the dead, which unfortunately includes the whole of my family. On digging the graves I am fuming with anger and I decide that I shall get my revenge and destroy the dragon myself.

I go to what remains of the small library, which actually was just a large room in the head foreman's house, and after grabbing just a few things I read up on everything he had on dragons. It was quite useful that the library was also the root cellar, and thus avouded burning down like the rest of the house.

I then devised a plan and set my traps. Of course the traps worked but alas why did I not think about the fact that a dragon would not come back to a town where no food or wealth was offered. Instead of a dragon I caught the self same party that Roger was so intimidated by.

I let them stew for a while, just to be sure they were not about to ransack my town. After much pleading on their side and a few large and scary spells thrown my way I decided to let them out and even feed them as it seemed they could use it.

Over the meal I inform them of my plight, leaving out the bit about the thieving and all, I may be arrogant but I am not stupid, and they feel sorry for me and escort me back to Southfordshire with a promise to get this dragon which now has a taste for flesh. Well you won't believe it but these marauding adventurers actually overthrew my old guild and now the city is safe and boring and I am stuck here with nothing to do.

My god they actually set up a better police force while they were there. That sucked.

Sorry, but I decided that rather than be caught like a rat in a trap in that town I would tag along with the adventurers.

It took much convincing but after keeping on them and following them from inn to inn, I finally convinced them to allow me along on their dragon hunt.

I gave them the choice of taking me with them or meeting me there, they took me with them for my own protection, awww isn't that sweet.

Well, on the way to this dragons den (They actually already knew where the damn thing was, you would think that would be more important than a thieves guild, but no the thieves were easier to beat and therefore first, I guess) I prove my worth more and more by my great climbing abilities and my many ways of entertaining the party along the way.

I hide as much of my thieving abilities as possible, as I said I am not stupid.

We finally get to the bloody dragon and boy do they pummel the thing. It is wonderful to watch. Dead dragon and now my family is avenged.

Then on to the treasure. I did not know adventuring was so profitable.

I decide there and then that I want to join in on this, it is too good a thing to pass by. So I apply my diplomatic skills to keep me in the party, basically I won't open any of the boxes, trunks, etc nor unset the traps surrounding any of the treasure unless I am allowed to join the group. They finally agree, mostly due to the pushing of the magic users who want to know what is making that giant glowiness of magic from this one particular box. Hey even the paladin agrees when she finally convinces herself that the only way to protect a poor lost homeless orphan is to take me with them. Whee!!!!

I have been with the group for 2 years now, I am 18, and let me tell you it has been great. No one to nay say me, we are the ones everyone turns to, so much treasure and hey the company isn't half bad either. There were a few close calls of getting caught by the group thieving but so far so good and hey it keeps life interesting. So long,
Ella

and mine for comparison...

Richard Tilley was born a slave. He grew up serving the slave lords until one day one of the wizards noticed great potential in Richard. Richard was then taken from his life of menial labor to a new life, one of service to the slavers as a mage.Richard was trained and although he was treated well, it was made clear to him that any attempts to escape or any other kind of rebellion would not be punished with a beating but instead with death since he was now dangerous. Richard behaved himself and got his training.


During his instruction, Richard devised a plan, a very long ranging plan but a plan nonetheless. He started to really get into his training and proved his loyalty enough that he was freed and started moving up in the ranks. Richard knew that if he bided his time he could expose the slavers and bring them down. In the meantime, he could engineer escapes and hopefully blame them on the more despicable slavers so they would be punished and maybe even dealt with permanently.

While rising up the ranks one of Richard's fellow slavers killed a female slave when she refused his advances. Richard was enraged when he happened upon the scene of the murder and killed the slaver with a lightning bolt. This woman was one of Richard's slaves so he said it was in retribution for the loss of his property and the matter was considered settled.The woman's son was now an orphan and Richard now considered her son, Roland, the Son he never had.

After that incident, Richard just continued moving up the ranks and while he felt like he couldn't do it as often he engineered escapes when he could, although he kept Roland around and they grew very close.

When Roland was 16, Richard decided it was time for Roland to escape. Richard started to formulate a plan to allow for Richard's escape. He knew, however that since Roland was one of his own slaves that he'd be held responsible for the loss and something drastic would have to happen.

The day came for Richard and Roland to set their plan in motion. Richard would leave potions for Roland to boost his speed, strength and stamina and then lure a fellow slaver, Thaddeus, back to where Roland was waiting. Roland would then attack Richard and the other slaver, a very thuggish man who has very fond of sleeping with his young male slaves.Hopefully the thug would die and Roland would be able render Richard unconscious and escape. However battle didn't go as well as planned

Richard offered to craft Gauntlets of Ogre Power for Thaddeus in exchange for slaves and gold. Richard took Thaddeus back to his shanty and Roland started drinking all his potions. Richard and Thaddeus entered in through the door and Roland tried to strike. Normally Richard was very good hiding his emotions and motivations but this time Richard wasn't good enough to not allow Thaddeus to be on his guard. Thaddeus saw the approaching Roland about to strike and was able to attack first, with a poisoned dagger. Roland was wounded and the poison was circulating through his system but he was able to continue fighting. Roland attacked but couldn't even land a bow on the very experienced and dexterous Thaddeus.Then the unthinkable happened. Thaddeus must have figured out what was going on because he rolled under Roland's spread legs and caught Richard right between the ribs with his rapier. Roland was getting weaker from the poison and Richard was seriously wounded. Richard would have to do something drastic. Richard cast Scorching Ray; Thaddeus took advantage of Richard's spell casting to attack him again. Richard again found himself on the receiving end of a rapier thrust but was able grit through the pain and cast his spell. The Scorching Ray nearly killed Thaddeus and Roland was able to finish him off before the poison took further hold. Richard then gave Roland a potion to deal with the poison and Thaddeus' gold and Gauntlets and then instructed Roland to knock him out and escape via the planned route. Richard nearly bled to death while unconscious but one of the other slavers found him and got help. Richard pretended to be outraged but he was elated. Roland did escape. The other slavers told Richard that he couldn't go after him because they had bigger problems. A paladin and her companions were getting awfully close to the organization and they wanted Richard to gather up whatever help he needed and go deal with it. A Paladin? This was going to be very difficult and interesting.