D&D General I am so done with kickstarter

[eyeheartawk]

I suppose, but I would still rather see a list of talent and the projects they have been attached to. I care far more about that than the art or big ideas these products often lean on.

Who needs that when I have these Super Cool Miniatures™

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Getting the impression that a lot of the KS naysayers in this thread aren't backing stuff like Zinequest or Zine Month projects--games and game aids that literally couldn't be published or distributed without crowdfunding. Not scolding anyone for not backing those, but KS has really helped get some incredibly cool and creative stuff made.

Also, I think a lot of 5e KS projects are kind of a unique category. That's where you tend to see some of the more ludicrous stretch goals--the minis, the dice bags, the endless doodads. If you're looking for a KS TTRPG cash grab, chances are it's going to be related to 5e. Stretch goal bloat can and does happen elsewhere, but at this point if you're backing a Free League or Pinnacle or Monte Cook or Steve Jackson (or similar) project, you can be assured that it isn't going to implode under its own weight.

Of the 27 TTRPG-related projects I've backed, the only one that is or was massively behind schedule is Stonetop, a game whose lead writer had a heart attack. And even there, they offered a full refund for those who don't wait to wait for the final product. But the in-progress digital files for Stonetop are 100 percent playable, their Discord is great and active, and tons of people have already run it (and I've used some of the materials for a different campaign). And that's a game that, if not for KS, either wouldn't exist, or at least wouldn't have had anywhere near the reach and impact it's had, before even seeing a full release.

ETA: Forgot to mention that some of us don't have a local game store, so for a lot of new games the choice is either back on KS, or eventually order on Amazon. That's going to be an easy call for me every time.

 

[Reynard]

By way of example: an add came up on my FB feed ("Tell me you are a GenXer without telling me you are a GenXer") for a KS for something called Bloodpunk for 5E by Dream realm Storytellers. I went to their website and while they have a setting out, Svilland, the website has not been updated for 2 years (and makes no mention of Bloodpunk). There is no apparent list of talent for the company and no bylines on any of their free PDF monsters.

And, well, the less said about those, the better: Spider Vessel - Corrupted Spider Monster for 5E - Dream Realm Storytellers

This is the sort of suspect 5E related KS I was referring to. Obviously there is abroad swath of companies that use KS, from small shops to established names, and very often it works great. But when I am making choices about backing things, I am not going to back products by companies that don't recognize the talent putting the thing together.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Getting the impression that a lot of the KS naysayers in this thread aren't backing stuff like Zinequest or Zine Month projects--games and game aids that literally couldn't be published or distributed without crowdfunding. Not scolding anyone for not backing those, but KS has really helped get some incredibly cool and creative stuff made.

Yes. Though, I would argue that Zinequest is too much. It's a veritable flood now and I'm sure lots of stuff gets lost in the noise. Also, some of these zines (not all) are the kind of content that used to be freely spread out over several posts on a blog ten years ago. Hard to get excited for that section of the things.

Of the 27 TTRPG-related projects I've backed, the only one that is or was massively behind schedule is Stonetop, a game whose lead writer had a heart attack. And even there, they offered a full refund for those who don't wait to wait for the final product. But the in-progress digital files for Stonetop are 100 percent playable, their Discord is great and active, and tons of people have already run it (and I've used some of the materials for a different campaign). And that's a game that, if not for KS, either wouldn't exist, or at least wouldn't have had anywhere near the reach and impact it's had, before even seeing a full release.

I'm glad that this is still happening, at least. But, for every Stonetop there's a Modiphius or Free League using this ol' dream engine to publish their Next Huge Licensed Game™. It can be hard to not be cynical about it. Between the ever increasing amount of that and the whole blockchain thing coming down the pipe, it smells of live long enough to become the villain to me.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Yes. Though, I would argue that Zinequest is too much. It's a veritable flood now and I'm sure lots of stuff gets lost in the noise. Also, some of these zines (not all) are the kind of content that used to be freely spread out over several posts on a blog ten years ago. Hard to get excited for that section of the things.

I get that it's a lot, but those events run for a brief period, with enough time for each project to give it a solid look. But also I'll never feel bad about throwing a little cash at folks for doing stuff that's interesting. And in a lot of cases it's how they get into the industry, setting up a publishing track record that's much more useful to other publishers and creators than writing a blog post.

I'm glad that this is still happening, at least. But, for every Stonetop there's a Modiphius or Free League using this ol' dream engine to publish their Next Huge Licensed Game™. It can be hard to not be cynical about it. Between the ever increasing amount of that and the whole blockchain thing coming down the pipe, it smells of live long enough to become the villain to me.

Blockchain stuff notwithstanding--I'll still bet all the crypto that I don't own that nothing will actually happen, once they fully realize how useless it is for their platform--I don't see the harm in big companies using KS for big stuff. If Free League can use KS to better gauge interest in a game and plot out their production costs, and to use it as marketing--and if you like their products--where's the downside? It's truly a win-win situation for everyone involved.

But if you take both your positions together, you've set up a real Catch-22. Too many small things--I can't keep track of em all! Also, too many big things--why are they on this platform that's better for...small things?

 

[Reynard]

One good side effect of the bigger companies using KS is that once fans of those companies are in the KS ecosystem, they will get ads for the smaller stuff that does need backers.

 

[eyeheartawk]

But if you take both your positions together, you've set up a real Catch-22. Too many small things--I can't keep track of em all! Also, too many big things--why are they on this platform that's better for...small things?

Well, not really.

My issue is launching 250 RPG zines in a three week period, specifically.

But, yeah sure, both can be true.

 

[Seramus]

I have backed 4 that ghosted. To be fair, one insists it's still making progress on their TTRPG even after 8 years, and puts out about one blog post a year.

But I don't look at them like an investor wanting a product. More like an alternative Patreon where I'm giving a creator some money so they can keep doing the thing I like.

I'm also the guy who never reads updates, just gives you money and wanders off, then shows up to claim my stuff two years after you've moved on to other projects.

 

[Morrus]

I'm also the guy who never reads updates, just gives you money and wanders off, then shows up to claim my stuff two years after you've moved on to other projects.

We hate that guy!

 

[embee]

The younglings hate Amazon. But I love Amazon. Because whatever I order, it arrives tomorrow.

Kickstarter seemed like a cool way to support creators.

But it doesn't seem cool any more, with their cash grab towards blockchain so the world can be destroyed faster by climate change.

But what really bothers me, is how long you have to wait for kickstarter products to arrive.

It is almost a year ago when I backed Dungeons of Drakkenheim, still no sign, no idea if it will even come this year.

I have no interest in it now.

That's because with the traditional publishing model, it was, "I will give you money for a finished product."

With crowdfunding, it's "I will give you money to finish a product."

Kickstarter is for people who, for whatever reason, have not capitalized their project. Maybe they couldn't secure financing, maybe their business model is garbage, maybe their product is unworkable, maybe they are clueless on how a product gets to market. Whatever the reason, you are the source of capital investment.

Want to be an investor? Use Kickstarter.
Want to buy an actual product that actually exists? Use Amazon.

Kickstarter is not a store.